Right Hand Camaro on hold

[bpmurr]

I know in Japan what draws buyers to these cars is the fact they aren't RHD. It makes the car more unique and American to buyers.

[Firebird67]

In Japan, especially for the German vehicles, you can actually pay a small premium to have the LHD model instead of the Japanese RHD models, from the factory new. It's a bit of a wank, and impractical, but they do not force conversion like they do here in Australia.

I was not aware GM actually sold any new vehicles in Japan? They would struggle to compete on the small/medium car market, the people mover market, and the 4WD market. Both for price and quality. Most of the utes/pickups we have in the US and Australia do not comply with sizes, i.e. they don't fit on Japanese roads.

There is a good enthusiast market for older American imports though!

[willisit]

Disappointing but not all that surprising. A great shame as we don't really "do" LHD here in the UK (I've owned several and see no problem with it). Still, it doesn't rule out me getting one but it does make it a little harder to justify.

[fireresq157]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes, but not nearly enough to justify the investment. If it were truly "a lot", then there probably would have been a good business case.



This wasn't a cut, it was a proposal that didn't pass the smell test.



It's not a matter of confidence. It's simply a matter of how many can you sell. There are pretty good methods for making that determination. Although sometimes GM will take a risk on an unknown, the Camaro is a known commodity and there are pretty good ways to determine how many could be sold in a given market.

Number 3 over time on this board you have countered my statement/opinions and I respect your view so just wanted to say this. I'm a loyal GM customer but I try to be unbiased, as such this won't the first nor the last bad call GM makes. Should I recall the reason they scraped the F-body in the first place. Lets see they rarely advertized it if at all and expected to have huge sales instead they concentrated on large(humongous)trucks/SUVs. Of witch there was a commercial on TV every 2 minutes. How did they expect the Camaro/Firebird to compete with that? BTW how did that strategy pan out for GM? I'm sure they had all the strategies, test, smells, studies done there too? Look I love GM the history the products etc , but maybe it would be better to once in a while listen to people that are not so tied into the company. You have hundreds if not thousands of foreigners buying the cars here and shipping them overseas essentially paying double or tripple for them that speaks plenty about this car. I know this site can have an influence on PR and product opinion. People may feel the need to help out GM, and by all means BUY GM. My last 6 vehicles have been all paid and bought by my earnings and I have been happy with them but yes they are things I would have done differently on them. Anyhow I live here is South Florida and have no need for this conversion, I'm happy with my 2SS/RS and speak volumes about it to anyone that would listen. I still think GM is passing up a great opportunity to impress. Who knows their true reasoning, maybe it's because they won't be using the current platform much longer but sometimes you have to say what the heck lets do it and this was not one. Makes no sence with the advertizing they are getting world wide with the two movies.

[MikeSVX]

Originally Posted by PQ

Edit: Oh, and, thanks for the R&D guys. Now you can't have it. :(

My thought too.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by fireresq157

Number 3 over time on this board you have countered my statement/opinions and I respect your view so just wanted to say this. I'm a loyal GM customer but I try to be unbiased, as such this won't the first nor the last bad call GM makes. Should I recall the reason they scraped the F-body in the first place. Lets see they rarely advertized it if at all and expected to have huge sales instead they concentrated on large(humongous)trucks/SUVs. Of witch there was a commercial on TV every 2 minutes. How did they expect the Camaro/Firebird to compete with that? BTW how did that strategy pan out for GM? I'm sure they had all the strategies, test, smells, studies done there too? Look I love GM the history the products etc , but maybe it would be better to once in a while listen to people that are not so tied into the company. You have hundreds if not thousands of foreigners buying the cars here and shipping them overseas essentially paying double or tripple for them that speaks plenty about this car. I know this site can have an influence on PR and product opinion. People may feel the need to help out GM, and by all means BUY GM. My last 6 vehicles have been all paid and bought by my earnings and I have been happy with them but yes they are things I would have done differently on them. Anyhow I live here is South Florida and have no need for this conversion, I'm happy with my 2SS/RS and speak volumes about it to anyone that would listen. I still think GM is passing up a great opportunity to impress. Who knows their true reasoning, maybe it's because they won't be using the current platform much longer but sometimes you have to say what the heck lets do it and this was not one. Makes no sence with the advertizing they are getting world wide with the two movies.

Good comments. I hope you don't judge GM not doing a RHD Camaro as a failure to impress.

You make some very good points, and from what I've been hearing Mr. Reuss will be, and has already been, impacting the marketing and advertising you will see. He has already quoted that you will start to see Camaro and Corvette used more often as halo vehicles to help sell other Chevys. A point Mrs. Number 3 strongly advocated years ago when she was on the Corvette program.

As for why the Gen IV didn't make it? Maybe GM could have done more, but I recall lots of ads for the Gen IV. Remember the one with the kid in his bedroom listening and identifying the cars as the went by? I sure do.

I understand your point on Full Size Trucks and SUVs and yes, that has worked out quite well for GM. We still have a huge market share in Full Size Pickups and our Full Size Utility market share is North of 70%. Both remain highly profitable and have allowed GM to even entertain making the Gen V.

But your point above that I highlighted is it in a nut shell. There just isn't a significant volume for GM to justify the 10s of millions of dollars it would cost. GM will have the Camaro in many markets, but the sticking point is the RHD. That is what will take the added investment. Also, if you go to England and Japan or Australia, the taxes alone on a 6.2L V8 and import duties are enormous.

So lets say for arguments sake that you could sell 1,000 RHD Camaros in those three markets. It will cost 10s of millions of dollars to tool up and validate for those 1,000 cars. So yes, there are people that will pay 6 figures to convert these cars (Corvettes included, but it isn't as many as you think). So not only would GM have to invest all of this money and dedicate many engineers to the taks, they would also have to set up dealers with parts and training and do local advertising, all for only hundreds of cars in each of these markets.

Also don't think that GM in downtown Detroit sits around and goes, hey lets make a statement and make RHD Camaros and ship them to Japan, Australian and GB and see how many we can sell. What they do is go to that region and talk to the people that are much more familiar with the customer and ask how many could you move? How many should we plan on if we do this?

That number was just too low.

Now someday when GM has paid back the loans and gone through the IPO and is actually making substantial money they could go ahead and decide on doing a HUGE money loser just to make a statement or even make the gamble that the people they asked were wrong and it would actually sell in bigger numbers.

So I don't disagree, it would be cool to do. But as an employee, I think we have better places to spend those millions of dollars. LIke keeping the Camaro great and able to beat the Mustang and Challenger here in the U.S., it's primary market.

[fireresq157]

oK not to sure on the market share for full size SUV's and pickups, anyhow there were three commercials that i remembered yes the kids, one with a girl driving and jimmi hendricks fire in the background, one for the firebird/transam burning thru a car. Maybe one more i can't think of . The 4rth gen lasted 10 years 3 commercials in that span dosen't make a huge campain. how many different commercials does GM use for pickups alone every year, advertising in sports events ect. When gas hit 4 dollars sales were dead . If large SUV sales are so profitable why is Hummer gone? Anyhow peace be with you and happy St Patrics day.

[bpmurr]

Originally Posted by Firebird67

In Japan, especially for the German vehicles, you can actually pay a small premium to have the LHD model instead of the Japanese RHD models, from the factory new. It's a bit of a wank, and impractical, but they do not force conversion like they do here in Australia.

I was not aware GM actually sold any new vehicles in Japan? They would struggle to compete on the small/medium car market, the people mover market, and the 4WD market. Both for price and quality. Most of the utes/pickups we have in the US and Australia do not comply with sizes, i.e. they don't fit on Japanese roads.

There is a good enthusiast market for older American imports though!

Well I think with the whole Toyota issue the myth of Japanese quality is over. They just did a better job covering up defects over the years. I remember the "silent recalls" on my 03 Accord.

[Firebird67]

Originally Posted by bpmurr

Well I think with the whole Toyota issue the myth of Japanese quality is over. They just did a better job covering up defects over the years. I remember the "silent recalls" on my 03 Accord.

I do not think there is any grounds for Japanese quality to be called mythical after this one episode. Toyota may have had some serious issues on their most recent cars, but they still make some of the most reliable cars in the classes they build and sell for. Reliability historically far exceeds that of GM or Ford, but unfortunately, I find most Toyotas are pretty dull (IMO). I'd buy a Hilux maybe, but for a practical reason - they don't have much in the way of excitement!!

On another note, I jumped into a Holden Commodore (GM) HSV GTS (LS3 315kw) today as a potential alternative for an SS Camaro and it really looked bland and a bit on the budget side inside. Outside looks okay, but man... turning a four door passenger car into a big V8 powerhouse just is no where as exciting as a car designed solely for being a sports/muscle car. It just felt like a slightly nicer taxi. Perhaps if I had not seen the inside of a Camaro I would have been more forgiving, but the Camaro looks miles ahead.

[Firebird67]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So lets say for arguments sake that you could sell 1,000 RHD Camaros in those three markets. It will cost 10s of millions of dollars to tool up and validate for those 1,000 cars.

I think they said it was just shy of $100 million to tool up, so I think for them to have ever been serious about it, exports would have had to have been forecast quite a bit higher. Whatever it was, it did not work out to be enough against what they think they will get from eco-cars.

I think GM will be second tier in the plug in and hybrid market as there has been significant R&D into that area by Japanese and European companies for quite some time. They are probably better off looking at an acquisitions to skip the R&D.

If I were in the market for one of those cars, or even just a petrol runabout, GM would never cross my mind. You want ergonomics, quality interiors, economy and long term reliability, and the Japanese have that covered - I guess the Koreans are getting closer year by year. You fork out a bit more for a Euro if you want something a bit different.

GM for me is really only about building loud/bold and attractive performance/muscle cars, because they're really pretty good at it!! They can build some great cars that have longer appeal, and here in Oz they build big practical family cars - and that's where they sell well.

My long winded point is that I think they are better off sticking to their strengths - larger practical vehicles and V6/V8 muscle. The small eco cars boat has long since sailed!

[Mark H]

I have a friend in Australia that had a Sierra Denali Quadrasteer shipped down under and had a conversion done on it. The conversion alone was over 40,000.00 dollars but was done perfectly.
I was hoping they would make RHD camaros so we could order a drivers power seat and replace our pasenger seat and have a powered pasenger sear.

[FirstLSK]

Driving a 2010 Camaro in Aussieland............... tell me, would you be a local celebrity or would you be robbed the first time you parked it?


.

[Firebird67]

Originally Posted by FirstLSK

Driving a 2010 Camaro in Aussieland............... tell me, would you be a local celebrity or would you be robbed the first time you parked it?


.

Depends where you park ;-)

[jmnzuswd]

General Motors may have killed off the plan to build the Camaro in RHD. This does not mean that it isn't possible to get a Camaro in RHD.

Our company, US World Direct, has been in the business of converting American vehicles to RHD, and supplying these to clients around the world. We convert more models of American vehicle to RHD, and always strive for the best possible factory quality in all our RHD designs and conversions. One of our latest projects has been desiging and building the 2010 Camaro in RHD.

Proper factory-quality RHD conversions do not come cheap. There is a huge amount of work involved, first in designing and building all of the RHD components, then in converting each and every vehicle to RHD. Still, the cost to do this is not quite as expensive as some of the numbers quoted in this thread.

Please note that certain RHD countries such as Japan and the U.K. do not require vehicles on their roads to be RHD. LHD cars are perfectly legal in these countries, provided that they are imported and registered for road use properly.

Other RHD countries do require all vehicles on their roads to be in RHD. Import regulations, laws, duties, and taxes can very quite a lot from country to country. It does pay to do your homework first before contacting us to order your own RHD Camaro. More details are available at www.uswd.com.