ZL1 VS SHELBY GT500

[AZ MSCL]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

no

Yes, really. Reputedly 650 HP on the 2013 GT500. If not, so what? Everytime one of the big three steps it up a notch, we all win. Unless you drive an electric car and are worried about gas mileage and limited fossil fuels. The Camaro is one fine assed car but Ford is on the game and has been so for quite some time. Unfortunately, Dodge and Chevy are not, especially Dodge. Us Dodge owners have to take matters into our own hands (superchargers). Unless you want to drop a V10 Viper engine in... Eventually, I will forge everything (along with the drivetrain) and zing it up to 800+ rwhp, maybe more. Petal to the metal.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

yup ... it will be at least 556. Now, whether that means 559 or 595, who knows

What transmission has an unlimited torque capacity?

With the ratings of both the MG9 and the 6L90 at it's maximum in the CTS-V, there really isn't much room for an increase. the TR6060 MG9 is rated at 560lb ft and the 6L90 is directly at 551lb ft. It is possible to increase the LSA's horsepower without touching the torque but like I said, we are sitting on a fine line. However, both transmissions were rated at the CTS-V's curb weight and that will give both transmissions some wiggle room. I would have to find the formula or figure it out, were looking at a 150lb window and I guesstimate 100 vehicle pounds would be a 10lb capacity increase. Some believe the ZL1 should go HP for HP with this new GT500 but most don't understand that there are some limiting factors within the drivetrain. I believe this is also a good reason why this GT500 won't use a TR6060 like last year and move on to the MT82. Evan Smith says that the '13 GT500 will have around 650hp (I don't know where he is getting that from), the MT82 is the only transmission Ford has to handle that capacity. This is how I challange GT500 and 5.4 fanatics when the topic of a Coyote powered SVT vehicle is discussed. While the MT82 (named 6MT1500 worldwide) has an official torque capacity of 370ish, the rating was achieved with almost a 10,000lb curb weight (German engineering). However, my sources say 612hp for the '13 GT500 and it gets pretty tight using the current TR6060, I believe the transmission only survives because of the weight reduction every year.

Every transmission has a limit and the aftermarket makes it obvious that the transmissions are not at their max. Warranty plays a major role and this could also be a huge factor when horsepower/torque ratings are released. I think Ford has a pretty good idea what the ZL1 will be and SVT is really confident especially testing the '13 GT500 right in front of Team Corvette. I wonder what it would take to get GM to pull the trigger on the LS9...

After the GT500 ran at Nurburgring, GM went public with the auto, ZR1 traction management, 550+ horsepower and now saying it will be a Q1 release instead of February. I think GM knows what the new GT500 is running and it has them on the defensive. I believe SVT deliberately ran the GT500 while team Corvette was there to show them the lap times and seeing the GT500's performance has possibly pushed the ZL1 back a month or so. This doesn't mean GM wont answer again, they just don't want to release in February just to have Ford release the 2013 Cobra the following week. I think GM should just go with the LS9 and be done with it, there is an $8,000 dollar difference in MSRP with the LS9 option. Add in the MH3 and that is another $2000 but there is some weight reduction in the LS9 and that is always good. There are new sources confirming the 5.8, one being Mr. Smith, still unsure if it's a 2013 option or if it's a Coyote or Condor... a majority say Coyote...

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by thePill

With the ratings of both the MG9 and the 6L90 at it's maximum in the CTS-V, there really isn't much room for an increase. the TR6060 MG9 is rated at 560lb ft and the 6L90 is directly at 551lb ft. It is possible to increase the LSA's horsepower without touching the torque but like I said, we are sitting on a fine line. However, both transmissions were rated at the CTS-V's curb weight and that will give both transmissions some wiggle room. I would have to find the formula or figure it out, were looking at a 150lb window and I guesstimate 100 vehicle pounds would be a 10lb capacity increase. Some believe the ZL1 should go HP for HP with this new GT500 but most don't understand that there are some limiting factors within the drivetrain. I believe this is also a good reason why this GT500 won't use a TR6060 like last year and move on to the MT82. Evan Smith says that the '13 GT500 will have around 650hp (I don't know where he is getting that from), the MT82 is the only transmission Ford has to handle that capacity. This is how I challange GT500 and 5.4 fanatics when the topic of a Coyote powered SVT vehicle is discussed. While the MT82 (named 6MT1500 worldwide) has an official torque capacity of 370ish, the rating was achieved with almost a 10,000lb curb weight (German engineering). However, my sources say 612hp for the '13 GT500 and it gets pretty tight using the current TR6060, I believe the transmission only survives because of the weight reduction every year.

Every transmission has a limit and the aftermarket makes it obvious that the transmissions are not at their max. Warranty plays a major role and this could also be a huge factor when horsepower/torque ratings are released. I think Ford has a pretty good idea what the ZL1 will be and SVT is really confident especially testing the '13 GT500 right in front of Team Corvette. I wonder what it would take to get GM to pull the trigger on the LS9...

After the GT500 ran at Nurburgring, GM went public with the auto, ZR1 traction management, 550+ horsepower and now saying it will be a Q1 release instead of February. I think GM knows what the new GT500 is running and it has them on the defensive. I believe SVT deliberately ran the GT500 while team Corvette was there to show them the lap times and seeing the GT500's performance has possibly pushed the ZL1 back a month or so. This doesn't mean GM wont answer again, they just don't want to release in February just to have Ford release the 2013 Cobra the following week. I think GM should just go with the LS9 and be done with it, there is an $8,000 dollar difference in MSRP with the LS9 option. Add in the MH3 and that is another $2000 but there is some weight reduction in the LS9 and that is always good. There are new sources confirming the 5.8, one being Mr. Smith, still unsure if it's a 2013 option or if it's a Coyote or Condor... a majority say Coyote...

Another very interesting post.

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by thePill

Evan Smith says that the '13 GT500 will have around 650hp (I don't know where he is getting that from),...

The current Ford offering for the TVS with Ford derived Tune and Warranty is 660HP. No reason for Ford to step down from this, especially since the drive-train and other components are up to snuff. All they need to do is follow me by putting 335s' on the rear and tighten up the suspension even more.....

[chain777]

Originally Posted by thePill

<snip While the MT82 (named 6MT1500 worldwide) has an official torque capacity of 370ish, the rating was achieved with almost a 10,000lb curb weight (German engineering). However, my sources say 612hp for the '13 GT500 and it gets pretty tight using the current TR6060, I believe the transmission only survives because of the weight reduction every year. >snip

I didn't know that about the MT-82's torque rating. So you're saying the MT-82 handles more torque than the TR6060? I always thought it was the opposite.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by AZ MSCL

Yes, really. Reputedly 650 HP on the 2013 GT500. If not, so what? Everytime one of the big three steps it up a notch, we all win. Unless you drive an electric car and are worried about gas mileage and limited fossil fuels. The Camaro is one fine assed car but Ford is on the game and has been so for quite some time. Unfortunately, Dodge and Chevy are not, especially Dodge. Us Dodge owners have to take matters into our own hands (superchargers). Unless you want to drop a V10 Viper engine in... Eventually, I will forge everything (along with the drivetrain) and zing it up to 800+ rwhp, maybe more. Petal to the metal.

So the next GT500 has gone up from 600 hp, to 620, to 650 now? GM better get a move on with the ZL1 or else the GT500 will be up to 700 hp by the time it gets released.

Anyway, my point is that power isn't everything. You can have all the power you like, but if the car can't manage to effectively put it down ...

Originally Posted by thePill

With the ratings of both the MG9 and the 6L90 at it's maximum in the CTS-V, there really isn't much room for an increase. the TR6060 MG9 is rated at 560lb ft and the 6L90 is directly at 551lb ft. It is possible to increase the LSA's horsepower without touching the torque but like I said, we are sitting on a fine line. However, both transmissions were rated at the CTS-V's curb weight and that will give both transmissions some wiggle room. I would have to find the formula or figure it out, were looking at a 150lb window and I guesstimate 100 vehicle pounds would be a 10lb capacity increase. Some believe the ZL1 should go HP for HP with this new GT500 but most don't understand that there are some limiting factors within the drivetrain. I believe this is also a good reason why this GT500 won't use a TR6060 like last year and move on to the MT82. Evan Smith says that the '13 GT500 will have around 650hp (I don't know where he is getting that from), the MT82 is the only transmission Ford has to handle that capacity. This is how I challange GT500 and 5.4 fanatics when the topic of a Coyote powered SVT vehicle is discussed. While the MT82 (named 6MT1500 worldwide) has an official torque capacity of 370ish, the rating was achieved with almost a 10,000lb curb weight (German engineering). However, my sources say 612hp for the '13 GT500 and it gets pretty tight using the current TR6060, I believe the transmission only survives because of the weight reduction every year.

Every transmission has a limit and the aftermarket makes it obvious that the transmissions are not at their max. Warranty plays a major role and this could also be a huge factor when horsepower/torque ratings are released. I think Ford has a pretty good idea what the ZL1 will be and SVT is really confident especially testing the '13 GT500 right in front of Team Corvette. I wonder what it would take to get GM to pull the trigger on the LS9...

After the GT500 ran at Nurburgring, GM went public with the auto, ZR1 traction management, 550+ horsepower and now saying it will be a Q1 release instead of February. I think GM knows what the new GT500 is running and it has them on the defensive. I believe SVT deliberately ran the GT500 while team Corvette was there to show them the lap times and seeing the GT500's performance has possibly pushed the ZL1 back a month or so. This doesn't mean GM wont answer again, they just don't want to release in February just to have Ford release the 2013 Cobra the following week. I think GM should just go with the LS9 and be done with it, there is an $8,000 dollar difference in MSRP with the LS9 option. Add in the MH3 and that is another $2000 but there is some weight reduction in the LS9 and that is always good. There are new sources confirming the 5.8, one being Mr. Smith, still unsure if it's a 2013 option or if it's a Coyote or Condor... a majority say Coyote...

February = Q1 release (January - March). No change

550+ was known since GM announced the ZL1, only difference now is that we know it to be 'more than the CTS-V' which has 556. So again, no real change. Besides, it was obvious that the ZL1 would have more power than the CTS-V when they said in the winter that it would have electric power steering & dual mode exhaust. And the Camaro seems to breath better than the CTS does (based on V6's), so there should be a few more ponies freed up. So anyone that had been following the ZL1 saw the new annoucement shouldn't be terribly surprised.

If I'm following you right ... the GT500 will have roughly doubled the power rating for its transmission, and you're worried about GM slightly exceeding the rating for its auto? Isn't that a little bass ackwards?

[AZ MSCL]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Anyway, my point is that power isn't everything. You can have all the power you like, but if the car can't manage to effectively put it down ...

Agreed.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by thePill

With the ratings of both the MG9 and the 6L90 at it's maximum in the CTS-V, there really isn't much room for an increase. the TR6060 MG9 is rated at 560lb ft and the 6L90 is directly at 551lb ft. It is possible to increase the LSA's horsepower without touching the torque but like I said, we are sitting on a fine line. However, both transmissions were rated at the CTS-V's curb weight and that will give both transmissions some wiggle room. I would have to find the formula or figure it out, were looking at a 150lb window and I guesstimate 100 vehicle pounds would be a 10lb capacity increase. Some believe the ZL1 should go HP for HP with this new GT500 but most don't understand that there are some limiting factors within the drivetrain. I believe this is also a good reason why this GT500 won't use a TR6060 like last year and move on to the MT82. Evan Smith says that the '13 GT500 will have around 650hp (I don't know where he is getting that from), the MT82 is the only transmission Ford has to handle that capacity. This is how I challange GT500 and 5.4 fanatics when the topic of a Coyote powered SVT vehicle is discussed. While the MT82 (named 6MT1500 worldwide) has an official torque capacity of 370ish, the rating was achieved with almost a 10,000lb curb weight (German engineering). However, my sources say 612hp for the '13 GT500 and it gets pretty tight using the current TR6060, I believe the transmission only survives because of the weight reduction every year.

Every transmission has a limit and the aftermarket makes it obvious that the transmissions are not at their max. Warranty plays a major role and this could also be a huge factor when horsepower/torque ratings are released. I think Ford has a pretty good idea what the ZL1 will be and SVT is really confident especially testing the '13 GT500 right in front of Team Corvette. I wonder what it would take to get GM to pull the trigger on the LS9...

After the GT500 ran at Nurburgring, GM went public with the auto, ZR1 traction management, 550+ horsepower and now saying it will be a Q1 release instead of February. I think GM knows what the new GT500 is running and it has them on the defensive. I believe SVT deliberately ran the GT500 while team Corvette was there to show them the lap times and seeing the GT500's performance has possibly pushed the ZL1 back a month or so. This doesn't mean GM wont answer again, they just don't want to release in February just to have Ford release the 2013 Cobra the following week. I think GM should just go with the LS9 and be done with it, there is an $8,000 dollar difference in MSRP with the LS9 option. Add in the MH3 and that is another $2000 but there is some weight reduction in the LS9 and that is always good. There are new sources confirming the 5.8, one being Mr. Smith, still unsure if it's a 2013 option or if it's a Coyote or Condor... a majority say Coyote...

Great post, although I have long questioned how the GT500 or the ZL1 will effectively put all that power and torque to the ground. Even with the new transmission. Drivetrain limitations exist for Ford as well. How will that 8.8" rear end hold up for instance? The factory version won't have R-compound tires or drag radials in the back either.

I've long suspected Ford has been trying to slowly upmarket the Mustang in terms of performance especially with the GT500. Mostly because that is all they really offer in terms of performance cars anymore.

Oh and Geiger also has done a few things to some Z06s and ZR1s... he is about American cars in general not just Ford or Chevy.

Do you ever make it up to drag race in Bitburg?

[BlackJacket]

ZL1 boasts better technology, but that might not matter when you are racing stop lights.

[8cd03gro]

It's pretty funny that we have a vs thread for two cars that we don't have the specs on yet. . .

[08-G35s/6MT]

Seems like the Shelby has been changing every year....

[ironpeddler]

Originally Posted by BlackJacket

ZL1 boasts better technology, but that might not matter when you are racing stop lights.

You mean it's boasts better suspension technology and no that suspension technology will not help you beat a gt500 at a street light or on the strip. Race-track, probably. I guess you could also say it boasts better tranny technology because Chevy might have an auto transmission option where-as the gt500 is purely stick. But besides that, wHere is the navigation, where are the forged internals, where is the human HAND-MADE engine, where is the glass roof option, is there going to be a convertible option for the ZL1(I honestly do not know), where is the gt500 "technology" that enables you to make over 700+ rwhp from the factory while still using every factory part except maybe the blower?

I honestly don't understand how people think the ZL1 is going to compete with the gt500. Again the gt500's have hand-made engines and cost roughly the same as the ZL1. Are you telling me that more people would rather have magnetic ride control than a hand-made engine capable of handling 800 crank Horsepower??? I mean seriously. Any car guy, man's man, car fanatic w/e you call it would much rather have a hand-made engine capable of handling gobs of power than magnetic ride control. It's a ZL1 or gt500, it's a top of the line muscle car made with power and speed. It's not your regular toyota camry or honda accord. Yeah I would want magnetic ride control on my daily driving sedan but on a top teir muscle car just give me the power so when I line up to race, it's on. And most people buying these cars have money and the majority will mod them whether it be slightly or alot. Becuase people with money have egos and they want to show those egos off and we could go on and on about this but yeah they will be modding their zl1's, ever if most say they wont.

I can see it now all the cheyv fanbois, in their girly voices, are going to be like, "I want a zl1 for my daily driver. So the magnetic ride control will be more comfortable and daily drives to work will be easier. And no, I don't plan on modding it so the zl1 beats the gt500." Then the gt500 fanbois is their deep, manly voices say, "just give me the factory hand-built engine and factory supporting components so i can slap some mods on that bad boy."

Muscle cars have always been defined by one thing, power. That's why they are called muscle cars. They aren't light, they don't handle the best but they can haul butt in a straight line. If you want some nimble, light, well-handling car I wouldn't say the ZL1 or gt500 are what you are looking for. Might want to look into an actual sports car.

[Napper]

likely cause my wife is a Ford fan......and i also drove some Cobra's in 00 and 03


Her 2011 GT500 is a rocking car......yet just a measly 7.2-7.5 psi on my maggie suspensionally done and brakein modded SS will walk her.....the V well that anpother lose to the Ford

with intake lower pulley and exhuast + a bubb canned tune eat her straight up


now i've driven her car and she has punched mine at a roll to no avqial the outcome is the same GM wins.

guess what sport fans.......the Gt500 is slower.....its has a catback....and thats it

but for the money my SS S/c spanks it.....likely the combo of tvs roots + auto + lower compresion....and the Gm 6 speed.


if the zl1 has the V's powerplant....it is built to handle the Hp your forged gt500
GOD does..


i know she( the V) has run 13 psi....with no issue..

and is a rolling beat.....a wraith...look at the avatar it looks like its foating becaue it does DEFEY physics!!!!



i''d race any stock Gt500 in either car...no matter what year and offer pink slips for the winner.
that CORAL SPRING FLORIDA BOYS. STREET TIRES ONLY HEHE lets see you hp work with that.

nough said........you stang lovers ...why not stay on your sight.


how about a 392 with a 125 plate nitorus system/........ohhhhh

i almost have it.........and i will embarrass any Gt500 that like to pull up to me on a private non public road....lol

or you could call out my 06 GTO 525 NA rw hp...with another 100wet shot......axles and harrop rear.... on bfg Drs's


i'll show you pain....

or maybe my c6 Zo6.....of course GM has an answer for everything and less expensively;



yes i'm sooooo scared of thenew Gt500 the Super Sanke can;t even beat a zo6 stock.....LOL


get a grip Ford fanboys....i use to be one of you....then i realized who is top dog.....ZL1 crushes gt600 road and track 2012

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by Napper

likely cause my wife is a Ford fan......and i also drove some Cobra's in 00 and 03


Her 2011 GT500 is a rocking car......yet just a measly 7.2-7.5 psi on my maggie suspensionally done and brakein modded SS will walk her.....the V well that anpother lose to the Ford

with intake lower pulley and exhuast + a bubb canned tune eat her straight up


now i've driven her car and she has punched mine at a roll to no avqial the outcome is the same GM wins.

guess what sport fans.......the Gt500 is slower.....its has a catback....and thats it

but for the money my SS S/c spanks it.....likely the combo of tvs roots + auto + lower compresion...????.and the Gm 6 speed.


if the zl1 has the V's powerplant....it is built to handle the Hp your forged gt500
GOD does.. You seriously think you can push hypertetic pistons to forged levels of boost of 22psi?


i know she( the V) has run 13 psi....with no issue..

and is a rolling beat.....a wraith...look at the avatar it looks like its foating becaue it does DEFEY physics!!!!



i''d race any stock Gt500 in either car...no matter what year and offer pink slips for the winner.
that CORAL SPRING FLORIDA BOYS. STREET TIRES ONLY HEHE lets see you hp work with that.

nough said........you stang lovers ...why not stay on your sight.


how about a 392 with a 125 plate nitorus system/........ohhhhh

i almost have it.........and i will embarrass any Gt500 that like to pull up to me on a private non public road....lol

or you could call out my 06 GTO 525 NA rw hp...with another 100wet shot......axles and harrop rear.... on bfg Drs's


i'll show you pain....

or maybe my c6 Zo6.....of course GM has an answer for everything and less expensively;



yes i'm sooooo scared of thenew Gt500 the Super Sanke can;t even beat a zo6 stock.....LOL


get a grip Ford fanboys....i use to be one of you....then i realized who is top dog.....ZL1 crushes gt600 road and track 2012

Do you have any ET's, 60 foots, and dyno numbers for your cars because once you get above 500hp many more variables come into effect like driver and the first 60 feet?

Stock 2011 GT500's with the SVT PP 20" G2's (same as ZO6) are getting 1.7 60 foots after a big burnout and mid-high 11's and are running low 11's with stickies best being a 11.1@124 and 10.8@126 with tune while other owners cant break into the 12's

It sounds like you prefer to play on the streets where I and other GT500 owners keep it on the track where our near stock cars really shine given its 3,600lb race weight and SRA and no wheel hop even stock on stickies when getting low low 60 foots.

All you need to run 10's in a new GT500 and drive it home is a set of stickies and a tune, and keeps you warranty intact vs some of the cars you mentioned that can beat stock GT500's on public roads