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Old 06-08-2018, 11:24 AM   #5391
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No thanks, and watch out for Cadillac cars sharing the road with you.
I try to anyway, the typical age of Cadillac owners here is enough to put everyone at risk WITHOUT some sort of driver assist system.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:27 AM   #5392
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:01 PM   #5393
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For anyone interested, the chief engineer for SuperCruise was on Autoline After Hours this past week.

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=55668

There both a video and a podcast version of the show. I listen to the podcast, as the show is mostly just 4 people sitting down talking to each other for an hour or so.

He's on for the first 45 minutes or so, talking about how the technology works (including the attention monitoring camera) and some of its limitations. After that, they mostly discuss recent auto news including monthly sales, Sergio's plans at FCA, & Mark Ruess's little 'whoopsie' with a pace car last weekend.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:59 AM   #5394
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For anyone interested, the chief engineer for SuperCruise was on Autoline After Hours this past week.

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=55668

There both a video and a podcast version of the show. I listen to the podcast, as the show is mostly just 4 people sitting down talking to each other for an hour or so.

He's on for the first 45 minutes or so, talking about how the technology works (including the attention monitoring camera) and some of its limitations. After that, they mostly discuss recent auto news including monthly sales, Sergio's plans at FCA, & Mark Ruess's little 'whoopsie' with a pace car last weekend.

Sorry, still not impressed.
Actually, Super Cruise is worse and more dangerous than I first thought. The engineer is a nice guy, but that's about it. After his raging success with the 8-speed automatic, he's now in charge of this? Basically, they are only scratching the surface of this system, relying on customer trial and error and the rest of the motoring public as guinea pigs.

Just for example...For the sake of some unnecessary Cadillac driver "convenience", not safety, the car could be brought to a complete stop in traffic, or in the middle of nowhere on a dark road, in the lane for the purpose of teaching the driver how to properly use his convenient super-cruise. WTF? Heaven forbid some family rear ends this car sitting dead in the water because the jack-job driver doesn't know what he's doing, or does know and thinks, screw it, I'll just restart it, hopefully before someone plows into the back of me on this high-speed highway. Good God. I can't believe they think this is a good idea. As a result of looking away for too long, and enjoying the exclusive experience of not having any hands on the steering wheel, the system will plant your car stopped in traffic for everyone else to deal with as an inconvenience or dangerous vehicle stopped unnecessarily in the middle of a high-speed lane? Nothing mechanically wrong with the car, just a driver who doesn't appreciate the convenience offered by Cadillac Super-Cruise.

In offering hands free driving as some sort of attractive driver convenience, a new unsafe circumstance is created that does not need to exist.

I hope the insurance companies or some good lawyers wake up to this bs and put a stop to it before it gets "out of control" or kills another innocent motorist.

Last edited by 90503; 06-10-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:50 PM   #5395
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I agree with you buddy.

Some people on here have good intentions with obviously little experience with actual oxygen wasting carbon based life forms. The real world isn’t as efficient as the lab or proving grounds. I see so much stupidity on a daily basis I can’t believe it, yet engineers think the unwashed masses will just instantly adapt and when pointed out they won’t they get all high and mighty.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:19 PM   #5396
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I agree with you buddy.

Some people on here have good intentions with obviously little experience with actual oxygen wasting carbon based life forms. The real world isn’t as efficient as the lab or proving grounds. I see so much stupidity on a daily basis I can’t believe it, yet engineers think the unwashed masses will just instantly adapt and when pointed out they won’t they get all high and mighty.
After being in engineering for many years there is nothing that can be made totally fool proof.. you will always have people figuring out ways to fool the safety measures, why? Because they see it as a challenge.. and some will discover ways totally by accident (no pun intended). Nothing can prevent that.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:42 PM   #5397
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
For anyone interested, the chief engineer for SuperCruise was on Autoline After Hours this past week.

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=55668

There both a video and a podcast version of the show. I listen to the podcast, as the show is mostly just 4 people sitting down talking to each other for an hour or so.

He's on for the first 45 minutes or so, talking about how the technology works (including the attention monitoring camera) and some of its limitations. After that, they mostly discuss recent auto news including monthly sales, Sergio's plans at FCA, & Mark Ruess's little 'whoopsie' with a pace car last weekend.
If SuperCruise is a driver assist, my first though is why would I want that level of complexity on my car if I must still be fully engaged and responsible? As shown it would only be beneficial in stop and go traffic and that’s only true if they really have taken the lag out of the acceleration so it can follow traffic closely like stated.
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:20 PM   #5398
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Remember, Super Cruise is programmed to operate primarily on highways. The car will alert you to take control. If you do not, it will turn on hazards, slow you down, and safely pull over onto the shoulder of the road.

From a review of the system in “The Drive”...

But continue to ignore warnings, and Super Cruise clearly informs the driver that he needs to reassert control, and the system disengages. If the driver fails to heed escalating visual, auditory, and sensory warnings (the latter a vibrating driver's seat) and does not physically take the wheel, the Cadillac will ultimately come to a stop, turn on its hazards, and summon help via its OnStar connection. Hey, you could be having a seizure or something. (Insert Cadillac-Ft. Myer's-retiree joke here.)

Sorry, Martin. I believe the chief engineer in his interview for this disagrees.

The car stops in the lane, does not pull over to the shoulder, (or ever change lanes on it's own for that matter)….As a consolation prize for the rest of the motorists near this car, it turns on the hazards. Hardly a sure fire way to guarantee there won't be a horrific crash between a dead-stopped vehicle in the midst of high speed traffic.

I think this also points out how easily misunderstood and unsafe Super-Cruise can actually be. Maybe they'll improve it to pull over at some point....perhaps after a few dozen unnecessary traffic fatalities caused by Cadillac.

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Old 06-10-2018, 04:23 PM   #5399
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Two rather long replies to follow ...

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Sorry, still not impressed.
Actually, Super Cruise is worse and more dangerous than I first thought. The engineer is a nice guy, but that's about it. After his raging success with the 8-speed automatic, he's now in charge of this? Basically, they are only scratching the surface of this system, relying on customer trial and error and the rest of the motoring public as guinea pigs.

Just for example...For the sake of some unnecessary Cadillac driver "convenience", not safety, the car could be brought to a complete stop in traffic, or in the middle of nowhere on a dark road, in the lane for the purpose of teaching the driver how to properly use his convenient super-cruise. WTF? Heaven forbid some family rear ends this car sitting dead in the water because the jack-job driver doesn't know what he's doing, or does know and thinks, screw it, I'll just restart it, hopefully before someone plows into the back of me on this high-speed highway. Good God. I can't believe they think this is a good idea. As a result of looking away for too long, and enjoying the exclusive experience of not having any hands on the steering wheel, the system will plant your car stopped in traffic for everyone else to deal with as an inconvenience or dangerous vehicle stopped unnecessarily in the middle of a high-speed lane? Nothing mechanically wrong with the car, just a driver who doesn't appreciate the convenience offered by Cadillac Super-Cruise.

In offering hands free driving as some sort of attractive driver convenience, a new unsafe circumstance is created that does not need to exist.

I hope the insurance companies or some good lawyers wake up to this bs and put a stop to it before it gets "out of control" or kills another innocent motorist.
Whats the alternative to stopping the car due to an inattentive driver? Wait for it to run out of gas? Nope, can't do that as that would bring the car to a stop in the middle of the lane, which doesn't solve the problem. Only other thing would be to have the car continue driving without the driver paying attention and hope that they just snap out of it at some point. I thought you didn't want cars on the road with inattentive drivers. Well, here is a system that does everything it can to prevent that very thing from happening, and its still wrong in your eyes. Because someone might hit a parked car at the side of the road. But how can that happen if this other driver driver is paying attention? If only somebody had a system that would prevent them from driving if they weren't paying attention, they wouldn't be slamming into disabled cars.

Meanwhile, put that inattentive SuperCruise driver (who is most likely incapacitated somehow since increasingly blatant warnings were ignored) into just about any other car on the road. A car that won't warn them. That won't pull over. Does it make you feel safer knowing that there is absolutely nothing controlling a roughly 2 ton hunk of metal hurdling along at 70 miles? Personally, I'd rather the car pull itself over if the driver is not capable of driving.


Or do you think that there are tons of people just itching to deliberately stop in the middle of traffic, but don't because their car won't do it for them. That second part is important because right now anyone could simply park their car on the highway. Not going to say nobody is going to do it, but I doubt it will ever be cracking the top 100 reasons for a car to be stopped on the road. Meanwhile, I'm sure that in the time its taken me to compose this reply a couple people have fallen asleep at the wheel and crashed. But thats fine, because they didn't do it in a semi-autonomous car.

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I agree with you buddy.

Some people on here have good intentions with obviously little experience with actual oxygen wasting carbon based life forms. The real world isn’t as efficient as the lab or proving grounds. I see so much stupidity on a daily basis I can’t believe it, yet engineers think the unwashed masses will just instantly adapt and when pointed out they won’t they get all high and mighty.
No, we understand that there are tons of stupid people out there. Engineering would be far easier if there weren't. And every engineer who isn't an absolute moron knows that the real world is different 'less efficient' than the lab. You're not revealing any Great Truth by saying that. But you're never going to be able to test everything that could ever happen before going into production either. For one thing, the heat death of the universe will happen before every possible thing happens. But backing off that, black swans exist. Those are things that nobody thought could happen before they happened. As such, it is impossible to test for them (since you can only test for things you know about). So, you design your system to be robust and fail safe and hope that is enough for most unforeseen circumstances.


There is literally nothing else that can be done besides not developing any technology ever. Can't develop a new medication because you don't know how it will interact with every combination of drugs in every persons individual bio chemistry. Can't develop a new microchip because you don't know how it will be perform with every piece of code that will ever run through it. Can't develop a new hammer because you don't know how it will react against every material at every temperature at every force at every fatigue level. Now, a hammer that fails is unlikely to do more than cause an injury. Medications can kill thousands though. A microchip behaving 'improperly' could be utterly harmless. Or if its in the right computer, it could initiate WWIII killing billions.


But I digress ...



Autonomous driving technology is based on the assumption that oxygen wasting carbon based life forms, as you called them, are everywhere & screwing things up. The people developing this technology accept that drivers are not perfect, and never will be. But they do not accept that nothing can be done.

The technology won't be perfect. But if perfection on the road is the only acceptable standard, then people shouldn't be allowed to drive either. While it will be unfortunate whenever someone dies in an accident with an autonomous car, if there are 5 lives saved in exchange thats not a bad deal. Its not a great deal either: in a perfect world nobody would die. But the world isn't perfect ... thats what started this whole mess in the first place.
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:27 PM   #5400
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I think this also points out how easily misunderstood and unsafe Super-Cruise can actually be. Maybe they'll improve it to pull over at some point....perhaps after a few dozen unnecessary traffic fatalities caused by Cadillac.
You're assuming that nobody would be dying from having a driver being completely unresponsive at the wheel. I don't think thats a very sound assumption to make.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:32 PM   #5401
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There is literally nothing else that can be done besides not developing any technology ever. Can't develop a new medication because you don't know how it will interact with every combination of drugs in every persons individual bio chemistry. Can't develop a new microchip because you don't know how it will be perform with every piece of code that will ever run through it. Can't develop a new hammer because you don't know how it will react against every material at every temperature at every force at every fatigue level. Now, a hammer that fails is unlikely to do more than cause an injury. Medications can kill thousands though. A microchip behaving 'improperly' could be utterly harmless. Or if its in the right computer, it could initiate WWIII killing billions.




That's a straw man, and not a very good one at that. No one was using the back of a screwdriver to set nails before the invention of a hammer to save us all. Supercruise is an answer to an unnecessary question pushed on people while claiming it's for their own good.



Could it be viewed as a logical, NECESSARY step to a fully autonomous future? Possibly. But it won't be for "safety" and that's not the banner to be flying. The true buy in comes from removing gridlock by having vehicles taken to preset destinations without all the hours of productivity lost to traffic jams. Traffic deaths are not going to get people to surrender their freedoms. Convenience will. People are extremely lazy and self centered these days. You have to make it about THEM. And on the topic of traffic deaths, why is the US so far ahead of places like Germany? Because in this country anyone with a pulse gets a license, or even if they don't, the penalties are ridiculously low.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:58 PM   #5402
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Sorry, Martin. I believe the chief engineer in his interview for this disagrees.

The car stops in the lane, does not pull over to the shoulder, (or ever change lanes on it's own for that matter)
….As a consolation prize for the rest of the motorists near this car, it turns on the hazards. Hardly a sure fire way to guarantee there won't be a horrific crash between a dead-stopped vehicle in the midst of high speed traffic.

I think this also points out how easily misunderstood and unsafe Super-Cruise can actually be. Maybe they'll improve it to pull over at some point....perhaps after a few dozen unnecessary traffic fatalities caused by Cadillac.
Yup. I sure got that one wrong. I based it on information that I got from a test drive review that I can no longer find. I must have mis-interpreted what the writer did say happened when he was test driving. He wound up parked on the shoulder at a freeway exit. It could have been because it does pass control back to the driver when it knows it is entering an exit ramp.
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:40 PM   #5403
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If Super Cruise's number one safety feature is coming to a stop when the driver drops dead while Super Cruise is engaged, I'm sure that will increase sales significantly. The other 99.99% of the time the car will stop in traffic (if it doesn't crash first) is because the driver felt something else was more worth his time than driving....and Super Cruise gave him a five, six second head start. Why offer the ability to avoid paying attention, for even five to six seconds, when you need to warn the driver time is up? It's a recipe for disaster that will add to inattentiveness, far from improving it.


The chief engineer needs to be made aware of this safety feature, though. He avoided calling this system a safety enhancement like the plague, and for good reason...It has nothing to do with safety. It's for the driver's convenience and enjoyment and offers some band-aid safeguards that the driver can ignore up until the last second, (which we still don't know how long until that last disciplinary second is reached)….


I think if you are honest about this "let go of the steering wheel feature", it is pre-emptively throwing a bone to the social media texting smart-phone crowd who can't wait to do something else behind the wheel other than drive safely. The temptation it offers will make it more unsafe than if it were never to have been offered.


Are there crashes and deaths without Super Cruise? Absolutely. The solution is not to create a dangerous system of letting go of the wheel to begin the process.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:05 PM   #5404
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