Price Gouging Dealers

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by CamaroScotty

What a crime.

Glad I have friends!

Hey Scotty, Out of curiosity, could I buy one from you and pick it up in NJ? hypothetically speaking.

[WadeWilson]

First post and I am in the market for a new Camaro. I just got off the phone with a dealer near me and was told they were marking up their camaros $5,000 over MSRP. He said the 2SS that I want would be $35,015 plus the five grand. Has anyone else ever heard of this??

[Pushing_Tin]

Originally Posted by Stang_Killer

First post and I am in the market for a new Camaro. I just got off the phone with a dealer near me and was told they were marking up their camaros $5,000 over MSRP. He said the SS2 that I want would be $35,015 plus the five grand. Has anyone else ever heard of this??

Yes, in this very thread.

[avol2]

Bruce Titus Chevrolet
Tacoma, WA
Yesterday told me they would
be 5-10k over MSRP.
I told him Thank you Very Much

[KILLER74Z28]

Another Dealer who changed their mind and decided to rip customers off to make a quick buck.

All together now "SHAME ON YOU"

Ron Tonkin Chevrolet
122nd & Burnside
Portland Oregon

3000 to 5000 over MSRP...

[Pushing_Tin]

Originally Posted by KILLER74Z28

Another Dealer who changed their mind and decided to rip customers off to make a quick buck.

All together now "SHAME ON YOU"

Ron Tonkin Chevrolet
122nd & Burnside
Portland Oregon

3000 to 5000 over MSRP...

Well the 5 or 10 cars they may get that much for will not make up for the loss of many future sales IMO. There are 4,500 members here, and quite a few live in the NW and could have been Tonkin customers, but not now. Hope it was worth it!

[camaro5]

Maybe you need to call CamaroScotty? Bypass the greedy ones.

[littlecammi]

Think about it one more time from the small dealer's point of view.

These dealers have had numerous inquiries from guys looking to get a Camaro SS as soon as they can be ordered. When people asked (prior to the day allocations were released) what their pricing would be they had no idea how many (or how few) Camaros they would be getting. They have seen or read about the limited production GT500 and the limited quantity '08 Challenger SRT8 going for thousands over MSRP. And now they are informed by GM that their dealerships will only be getting a handful of Camaros between February and September. If half (probably more) of production are V6 models, then each of these dealers is looking at getting just 2 to 4 of the Camaro SS over the next several months. That certainly seems like limited availability to them. So the general manager asks the people on his waiting list for more than MSRP to be able to order one of his only two or three SS Camaros with exactly the colors and options they want. Maybe he'll get it. Or maybe someone on the list counter offers him $5K over and he takes it. Or he could decide to wait until he can order the SS Camaros for his showroom stock, so he can use them to draw floor traffic, help sell other Chevy models, and throw a supplemental ADM (additional dealer markup, also known as market value adjustment) sticker on the window next to the Mulroney. Maybe the smartest small volume dealers are the ones who are refusing to pre-sell any of their initial Camaro allotment. Come March/April 2009 when they actually have unsold SS Camaros in their showroom they can charge upwards of $10K over MSRP to the rich guys (professional athletes, etc.) who aren't enthusiasts enough to be on top of pre-ordering a Camaro now but have more than enough money to pay whatever it takes to buy one when they are available. And those potential buy-it-now-and-drive-it-home-today customers will be turned away at all the dealers who pre-sold their cars and have to tell them "those Camaros you see aren't available because they are all sold already".

[DFWSS]

I just got off the phone with my dealer, or would be dealer, Stonebriar Chevrolet in Frisco, TX. Although we have spoken many times, and I was again assured that they would be selling at MSRP when I put my deposit down last Thursday, I was informed today that "Chevrolet has reduced the Camaro allocations to all dealers, and therefore we will be charging Market Pricing. We expect the Market Price to be anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 over MSRP, but it could be higher." I didn't tell them to shove it.......yet. I'm placing some calls tonight, and I will find another dealer. Once I get verification at another dealer, I will be swinging by to pick up my refundable deposit, informing them that they just lost a customer to one of their local competitors, and I'll drop my cash off at another dealer.

This crap reminds me why I f'n hate car salesmen.

TAKE 'EM OFF THE LIST KILLER!

[KILLER74Z28]

Another one bites the dust...

1000 to 3000 + over MSRP

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO on you...

Stonebriar Chevrolet
9950 State Highway 121
Frisco, TX 75035
(214) 472-5500
http://www.stonebriarchevrolet.com/

[avol2]

Originally Posted by BFreedman

PARKLAND CHEVROLET IN TACOMA WASHINGTON WILL GLADLY SELL YOU A 2009 CAMARO AT MSRP! FOR CUSTOMERS AROUND OUR AREA, YOU WILL ALSO ENJOY FREE OIL CHANGES FOR LIFE

Yes they will.... I know this cause I ordered one already.. Well actually its a 2010

[Pushing_Tin]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

Think about it one more time from the small dealer's point of view.

These dealers have had numerous inquiries from guys looking to get a Camaro SS as soon as they can be ordered. When people asked (prior to the day allocations were released) what their pricing would be they had no idea how many (or how few) Camaros they would be getting. They have seen or read about the limited production GT500 and the limited quantity '08 Challenger SRT8 going for thousands over MSRP. And now they are informed by GM that their dealerships will only be getting a handful of Camaros between February and September. If half (probably more) of production are V6 models, then each of these dealers is looking at getting just 2 to 4 of the Camaro SS over the next several months. That certainly seems like limited availability to them. So the general manager asks the people on his waiting list for more than MSRP to be able to order one of his only two or three SS Camaros with exactly the colors and options they want. Maybe he'll get it. Or maybe someone on the list counter offers him $5K over and he takes it. Or he could decide to wait until he can order the SS Camaros for his showroom stock, so he can use them to draw floor traffic, help sell other Chevy models, and throw a supplemental ADM (additional dealer markup, also known as market value adjustment) sticker on the window next to the Mulroney. Maybe the smartest small volume dealers are the ones who are refusing to pre-sell any of their initial Camaro allotment. Come March/April 2009 when they actually have unsold SS Camaros in their showroom they can charge upwards of $10K over MSRP to the rich guys (professional athletes, etc.) who aren't enthusiasts enough to be on top of pre-ordering a Camaro now but have more than enough money to pay whatever it takes to buy one when they are available. And those potential buy-it-now-and-drive-it-home-today customers will be turned away at all the dealers who pre-sold their cars and have to tell them "those Camaros you see aren't available because they are all sold already".

I don't disagree with any of this. They are certainly within their right to sell these cars for whatever price they can. I just don't think it's a good idea to alienate dozens of other potential customers to make $20k on a few cars; especially in times like this where we can all share information from all over the country in seconds.

We call people that sell tickets at inflated prices "scalpers," are these dealers any different?

[JohnnyCapital]

Originally Posted by Pushing_Tin

I don't disagree with any of this. They are certainly within their right to sell these cars for whatever price they can. I just don't think it's a good idea to alienate dozens of other potential customers to make $20k on a few cars; especially in times like this where we can all share information from all over the country in seconds.

We call people that sell tickets at inflated prices "scalpers," are these dealers any different?

My dealership is one of the "small town" dealers that littlecammi was referring to. Our total allocation through Q3 09 is 2. Our owner's friend is buying one of them, and the other one we are trying to keep for our inventory. If someone wants to pay us $5k for it, we would do the deal, but since we only have one unit to sell to the public, my GM would rather have it as a stock order because it will be one of the only SS's around that is not already spoken for.

As the Internet Sales Manager, I am in a hard place because I hate telling my customers that I have to have $5k over to order from me, but we have to play the cards we're dealt. Plus I agree with my GM and littlecammi that having an SS in the showroom in March will be a great draw. By that time we will have enough information on the available supply and demand to determine whether a "market adjustment" is warranted. I'm glad none of my customers have branded me a "price gouging dealer" because I have never gouged anyone, and I'm sure a lot of the dealers listed here have never gouged anyone either. The same way that some of the mega-dealers who have a 20-30 car allocation and can afford to sell as many as they can at MSRP have horrible CSI scores.

To some people, it may be worth paying a little extra for the convenience of doing business close to home, supporting the local economy, and continuing a good relationship with a local dealer. While others are willing to travel great distances to save some money because the economy is in the toilet right now and every dollar counts. To each his own! I think it's great that this forum and others like it are here so we can exchange information and share thoughts and experiences. But I do think it's unfair to label every dealer who attempts to sell a Camaro over the MSRP as a "price gouging dealer" if they are clear and transparent with their offer.

It's kind of hard to gouge(extort, swindle, or overcharge) someone when they are voluntarily singing a contract to purchase a vehicle at a price they agree to pay for it. Think about it.

I have also bought tickets from "scalpers" at below face value, just as many of us have bought cars at below MSRP. So yes, if a "scalper" is someone who sells an asset at a market price, then a dealer could be considered a "scalper" of cars.

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCapital

My dealership is one of the "small town" dealers that littlecammi was referring to. Our total allocation through Q3 09 is 2. Our owner's friend is buying one of them, and the other one we are trying to keep for our inventory. If someone wants to pay us $5k for it, we would do the deal, but since we only have one unit to sell to the public, my GM would rather have it as a stock order because it will be one of the only SS's around that is not already spoken for.

As the Internet Sales Manager, I am in a hard place because I hate telling my customers that I have to have $5k over to order from me, but we have to play the cards we're dealt. Plus I agree with my GM and littlecammi that having an SS in the showroom in March will be a great draw. By that time we will have enough information on the available supply and demand to determine whether a "market adjustment" is warranted. I'm glad none of my customers have branded me a "price gouging dealer" because I have never gouged anyone, and I'm sure a lot of the dealers listed here have never gouged anyone either. The same way that some of the mega-dealers who have a 20-30 car allocation and can afford to sell as many as they can at MSRP have horrible CSI scores.

To some people, it may be worth paying a little extra for the convenience of doing business close to home, supporting the local economy, and continuing a good relationship with a local dealer. While others are willing to travel great distances to save some money because the economy is in the toilet right now and every dollar counts. To each his own! I think it's great that this forum and others like it are here so we can exchange information and share thoughts and experiences. But I do think it's unfair to label every dealer who attempts to sell a Camaro over the MSRP as a "price gouging dealer" if they are clear and transparent with their offer.

It's kind of hard to gouge(extort, swindle, or overcharge) someone when they are voluntarily singing a contract to purchase a vehicle at a price they agree to pay for it. Think about it.

I have also bought tickets from "scalpers" at below face value, just as many of us have bought cars at below MSRP. So yes, if a "scalper" is someone who sells an asset at a market price, then a dealer could be considered a "scalper" of cars.

Here's my thoughts...if your dealership is small enough to only garner an allocation of 2 Camaros and you have to get $5k over MSRP to get to a price which you consider "market price", then perhaps your dealship is too small and should be absorbed into your next largest competing GM dealership. GM has told you the price at which it believes to be a fair market price (MSRP) but your dealership seems to think that GM and all of its market research into pricing the car is clearly wrong. Therefore you will set your own price.

Price gouging dealers come in all sizes, small and large. Just because you are a small dealer that is clear and transparent with your customers about charging more than GM thinks you should, doesn't mean you aren't gouging your customers. Your customers likely spent years building a relationship with you and expect you to treat them fairly when it comes to pricing. Without doing enough research, they fail to realize that you are throwing away that relationship because your business model can't support selling the car at MSRP.

I think this points out fairly well that GM has way too many dealerships across the US. They need to consolidate and get the number of dealers down to roughly 1/2 of what it is now so that each remaining dealer sells in enough volume to be able to support their business model without resorting to price gouging to stay in business.