I need some opinions on what to do about my rockers. - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Firefighter · 08-08-2016, 04:35 PM

So need some opinions. I've decided that the rockers are suspect on my car. My plans started out that I would just use the summit kit that comes with PAC springs and the installation tool. I'll upgrade the 5/16 pushrods and add tool steel retainers. This would net me zero gain but add reliability and piece of mind. Here's a link to the kit... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sme-k-14300

When searching out parts it occurred to me why do all this work and not pick up even a few HP/TQ regardless of how small it will be something. So for about $200 more I can add the Comp Cams 1678 rockers in 1.8 here... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1678-16

Supposedly this is worth maybe 10HP/15TQ while it is a small gain it is some reward for the effort. This is not to replace a cam that's going to happen eventually and I'll likely run a shaft mount set up then if these won't work for my situation. If that is the case I will just throw them on the wife's G8 GT.

I'll make sure the springs and pushrods are measured out properly for both cars. These are supposed to fit under the stock valve covers too.

My biggest concern is I'll need a retune. If this is the case it'll get to be too costly for the minimal gain.

I know the stock rockers with the upgrade are more than sufficient for a stock cam. I'd just like to get a seat of the pants gain out of the labor.

I do plan to do the cam and other parts later but a few things have made that not feasible right now and I don't like the sounds coming out of my valve train. She's getting a little noisy compared to normal.

So thoughts opinions etc...

LSX Camaro · 08-08-2016, 08:54 PM

I would not use any of the parts you listed other than the tool from Summit Racing. This looks like a big waste of time and money. And you can get much better parts for the same, if not less money. 3/8 pushrods on a stock cam, why would you add all that extra weight into the valvetrain?

Firefighter · 08-08-2016, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSX Camaro

I would not use any of the parts you listed other than the tool from Summit Racing. This looks like a big waste of time and money. And you can get much better parts for the same, if not less money. 3/8 pushrods on a stock cam, why would you add all that extra weight into the valvetrain?

Main thing I was looking to do is stiffen up the valve train. I was looking to drop weight with the retainers.

What would you do then?

*I looked again, I had 5/16 picked out. That was a reflex from my old SBC days...

Unreal · 08-08-2016, 09:34 PM

What Chris said.

The heavier rockers will lower your RPM limit, and can cause valve train instability. Any gain from the added lift will probably be lowered by a worse rocker.

If you want to do anything, throw a set of the bushed trunions in.

Firefighter · 08-08-2016, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal

What Chris said.

The heavier rockers will lower your RPM limit, and can cause valve train instability. Any gain from the added lift will probably be lowered by a worse rocker.

If you want to do anything, throw a set of the bushed trunions in.

I thought about the bushed trunions. I figured this bearing set up would be good enough it's the same stuff that BTR sells in his kit. The PAC springs are supposed to be G2G. And I've been told the factory pushrods are crap. So I just figured I'd do that set up.

This is just to hold me for a year or so. I was going to do heads and cam but some unexpected expenses came up.

So you guys give me a better plan for consideration. I'm no stranger to engine building. I'm just new to building the LS platform. It can't be that different than my main experience SBC. I know the stock rocker is damn good I was just looking for easy power.

Firefighter · 08-09-2016, 10:13 AM

Unless I get some differing advice that seems good I think I'm going to order parts tonight.

I'm thinking that Summit kit which has better springs than the factory made by PAC and the same trunion kit that Tooley sells (which is out of stock right now) and add the lightweight Tool Steel retainers. Plus the Magnum 5/16 pushrods.

I'm thinking the replacement of the springs and retainers are excessive but since I'm in there it'll be good piece of mind. I'm at 35K miles.

I'll probably do some plugs too while I have them out. Stock are the Delco iridium 41-110. I was told by my tuner to run TR6 plugs which are one range cooler than stock. From what I've been able to figure out the 41-104 (from the ZL1and ZO6) is the equivalent heat wise to the TR6.

Any thoughts? That one rocker is rattling and I need to fix it this weekend.

Bo White · 08-09-2016, 10:31 AM

I've got 106k miles on my stock rockers.

Firefighter · 08-09-2016, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo White

I've got 106k miles on my stock rockers.

I get that they can and should hold up. I have a definite rattle coming from under the valve cover at #7. The rest sound good. I know when I pull the cover there's going to be a problem.

Full disclosure I believe I may of missed a few shifts when I had the walking boot on my clutch foot for about 5 weeks...

Unreal · 08-09-2016, 02:23 PM

You couldn't pay me to run that kit. The needle bearing rocker upgrades are failing all the time now. If you do a rocker upgrades do one of the bushing kits.

Firefighter · 08-09-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal

You couldn't pay me to run that kit. The needle bearing rocker upgrades are failing all the time now. If you do a rocker upgrades do one of the bushing kits.

So would you do bushings and pushrods? Forget the springs and retainers? I see BTR has the Smith kit in stock. That Summit tool should work with the bushings too, or no?

Unreal · 08-09-2016, 02:49 PM

Yep. Swapping my comp kit out for the Smith Bros kit this weekend. If you want do do springs and retainers just order it all from btr.

Firefighter · 08-09-2016, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal

Yep. Swapping my comp kit out for the Smith Bros kit this weekend. If you want do do springs and retainers just order it all from btr.

I want to stick to the beehive springs since I'm still on the stock cam to keep the weight down. I'll move to double springs when the cam swap happens. BTR doesn't show any beehive spring kits other than stock pull offs.

I'll either leave it as is or go with the PAC springs unless I come up with another idea.

CFD · 08-09-2016, 03:16 PM

I would go bushings, too many failures both OEM and with upgrades.

Firefighter · 08-09-2016, 03:35 PM

Okay, so now I'm looking at the following.

From BTR. The Smith kit and the rocker bolts.

From Summit. The TS retainers and felpro seals, hardened locks, the install tool, Magnum pushrods.

I could save maybe $6 by going with the BTR pushrods but who makes them. If I went with the Ti retainers I could save $40 but I have reservations about running the Ti on a DD. After talking to the PAC guy he kind of steered me away from them.

The big question is are the TS retainers that claim a 30% weight reduction worth doing?

Hell, should I skip the springs and retainers all together?

08-08-2016, 04:35 PM	#1
Firefighter Drives: Black '13 2SS/RS/1LE w/NPP/NAV Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Tampa by way of Miami... Posts: 4,934	I need some opinions on what to do about my rockers. So need some opinions. I've decided that the rockers are suspect on my car. My plans started out that I would just use the summit kit that comes with PAC springs and the installation tool. I'll upgrade the 5/16 pushrods and add tool steel retainers. This would net me zero gain but add reliability and piece of mind. Here's a link to the kit... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sme-k-14300 When searching out parts it occurred to me why do all this work and not pick up even a few HP/TQ regardless of how small it will be something. So for about $200 more I can add the Comp Cams 1678 rockers in 1.8 here... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1678-16 Supposedly this is worth maybe 10HP/15TQ while it is a small gain it is some reward for the effort. This is not to replace a cam that's going to happen eventually and I'll likely run a shaft mount set up then if these won't work for my situation. If that is the case I will just throw them on the wife's G8 GT. I'll make sure the springs and pushrods are measured out properly for both cars. These are supposed to fit under the stock valve covers too. My biggest concern is I'll need a retune. If this is the case it'll get to be too costly for the minimal gain. I know the stock rockers with the upgrade are more than sufficient for a stock cam. I'd just like to get a seat of the pants gain out of the labor. I do plan to do the cam and other parts later but a few things have made that not feasible right now and I don't like the sounds coming out of my valve train. She's getting a little noisy compared to normal. So thoughts opinions etc... __________________ My Build Thread... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285054 Last edited by Firefighter; 08-08-2016 at 09:27 PM.

08-08-2016, 08:54 PM	#2
LSX Camaro Master ASE, GM, LSX Tech. Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,034	I would not use any of the parts you listed other than the tool from Summit Racing. This looks like a big waste of time and money. And you can get much better parts for the same, if not less money. 3/8 pushrods on a stock cam, why would you add all that extra weight into the valvetrain? __________________ 2010 2SSRS A6, Custom Pat G. Cam, WCCH Cylinder Heads, Kooks Headers/Exhaust, BTR Valvetrain, Fluidampr 25% UDP, All Engine ARP bolts, Flex-a-lite radiator/Trans cooler, Yank converter, PFADT Suspension, ADM Race Intake/Scoop, Torq tow hook, CFD auto shifter, Dynojet AFR gauge, Aeroforce scan gauge, Brake Performance rotors/pads Prothane bushings, ZL1 wheels, spoiler, Z/28 wickerbill, 1LE Aero/Suspension Package, Anderson Composites COPO Carbon Fiber Hood, LED lighting, Elite Catch Can, Improved Racing oil pan baffle, crank scraper, windage tray 480 RWHP 452 RWTQ + Nitrous Express 150 Shot

08-08-2016, 09:34 PM	#4
Unreal Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 5,712	What Chris said. The heavier rockers will lower your RPM limit, and can cause valve train instability. Any gain from the added lift will probably be lowered by a worse rocker. If you want to do anything, throw a set of the bushed trunions in. __________________ Nick Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp

08-09-2016, 10:13 AM	#6
Firefighter Drives: Black '13 2SS/RS/1LE w/NPP/NAV Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Tampa by way of Miami... Posts: 4,934	Unless I get some differing advice that seems good I think I'm going to order parts tonight. I'm thinking that Summit kit which has better springs than the factory made by PAC and the same trunion kit that Tooley sells (which is out of stock right now) and add the lightweight Tool Steel retainers. Plus the Magnum 5/16 pushrods. I'm thinking the replacement of the springs and retainers are excessive but since I'm in there it'll be good piece of mind. I'm at 35K miles. I'll probably do some plugs too while I have them out. Stock are the Delco iridium 41-110. I was told by my tuner to run TR6 plugs which are one range cooler than stock. From what I've been able to figure out the 41-104 (from the ZL1and ZO6) is the equivalent heat wise to the TR6. Any thoughts? That one rocker is rattling and I need to fix it this weekend. __________________ My Build Thread... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285054 Last edited by Firefighter; 08-09-2016 at 01:58 PM.

08-09-2016, 02:23 PM	#9
Unreal Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 5,712	You couldn't pay me to run that kit. The needle bearing rocker upgrades are failing all the time now. If you do a rocker upgrades do one of the bushing kits. __________________ Nick Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp

08-09-2016, 10:31 AM	#7
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	I've got 106k miles on my stock rockers. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

08-09-2016, 02:49 PM	#11
Unreal Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 5,712	Yep. Swapping my comp kit out for the Smith Bros kit this weekend. If you want do do springs and retainers just order it all from btr. __________________ Nick Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp

08-09-2016, 03:16 PM	#13
CFD Drives: 2SS/RS L99 BLACK Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Franklin , MA Posts: 6,696	I would go bushings, too many failures both OEM and with upgrades.

08-09-2016, 03:35 PM	#14
Firefighter Drives: Black '13 2SS/RS/1LE w/NPP/NAV Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Tampa by way of Miami... Posts: 4,934	Okay, so now I'm looking at the following. From BTR. The Smith kit and the rocker bolts. From Summit. The TS retainers and felpro seals, hardened locks, the install tool, Magnum pushrods. I could save maybe $6 by going with the BTR pushrods but who makes them. If I went with the Ti retainers I could save $40 but I have reservations about running the Ti on a DD. After talking to the PAC guy he kind of steered me away from them. The big question is are the TS retainers that claim a 30% weight reduction worth doing? Hell, should I skip the springs and retainers all together? __________________ My Build Thread... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285054 Last edited by Firefighter; 08-09-2016 at 03:54 PM.