Due to a technical issue, all posts made over the past 24-48 hours have been lost. We sincerely apologize for this!!!
 
Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Solo Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Dragstrip and Launch Techniques Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-09-2018, 09:50 AM   #29
Motorboy8769
 
Drives: 2015 2ss
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wooster ohio
Posts: 545
I don’t know exactly what a Bare cradle weighs. Im hoping for 100lbs off maybe more I will have smaller and lighter brakes on the back plus a couple lbs lighter rims. Plus to do he 4 link I have to use a fuel call so I may Lois a little ditching the factory tank.
Once I get a cage in the car I’m going to cut all the un needed double wall steel that they cut off of the copo. They are 2900 dry I believe.

Here is a pic of the scale
Name:  D64072E8-7E66-414C-986D-9CB61E70B087.jpg
Views: 264
Size:  158.8 KB
Motorboy8769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 10:13 AM   #30
BEaSSy
 
BEaSSy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pikeville NC
Posts: 105
You have me thinking pretty hard about a 4link now... I'm sure that we'll eventually have to go the route your are going...It may be easier to do before we spend for the 15' conversion....your logic is on point I think! We were already planning fuel cell down the road along with some other stuff..

I would love to be around 31-3200lbs

Sorry to ask a question off topic.

Thanks for replying!
__________________
2014 2SS/RS TH400 Swap, CAI Cold Air Intake, SW LT's, PTB, GPI Intake Mod, Circle D Converter, DSS 9in conversion and Gears, GPI Cam and Heads..Tuned by "Ryan" GPI
BEaSSy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 10:50 PM   #31
Motorboy8769
 
Drives: 2015 2ss
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wooster ohio
Posts: 545
I got my answer and then I went off topic so no worries man. That is my plan i can’t see spending 7k on a irs setup for drag racing. If it was in to twisty turnies then that’s different.
Motorboy8769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 01:02 PM   #32
WHAMMO


 
WHAMMO's Avatar
 
Drives: 13' 1LE
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,274
7200 here. Hitting 7k on a regular basis cause it sounds so sweet. 5k miles so far so good. TSP 231 236 on 111.
__________________
TSP 231/236 111 cammed 1LE
WHAMMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 06:13 PM   #33
Russell James


 
Russell James's Avatar
 
Drives: two 5ths and a 1st
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mich
Posts: 4,312
Valve weight plays a big role.

Heavy valves...like stock intakes in an L99 or LSA...I wouldn't go anywhere near 7000. An LS3 comes with lightweight valves stock. Shops with a Spintron machine will know what valve and spring combinations will work 7K+.

Its much more than just the cam. It's also a question of valve weight...then components that have been tested together that are still stable at that target RPM.
Russell James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2018, 10:37 PM   #34
Dbunch9
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorboy8769 View Post
I don’t know exactly what a Bare cradle weighs. Im hoping for 100lbs off maybe more I will have smaller and lighter brakes on the back plus a couple lbs lighter rims. Plus to do he 4 link I have to use a fuel call so I may Lois a little ditching the factory tank.
Once I get a cage in the car I’m going to cut all the un needed double wall steel that they cut off of the copo. They are 2900 dry I believe.

Here is a pic of the scale
Attachment 923412
Can I ask how the hell you got the weight down so much
Dbunch9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2018, 03:51 AM   #35
rebelyell22


 
rebelyell22's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 SIM 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Tupelo, MS
Posts: 5,772
How high can you spin a stock LS3 without it grenading?
__________________
2011 2SS/RS built 8/24/10
rebelyell22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2018, 10:32 AM   #36
Motorboy8769
 
Drives: 2015 2ss
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wooster ohio
Posts: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbunch9 View Post
Can I ask how the hell you got the weight down so much
I took out everything not needed a.c. front and rear crash bars carpet padding stock hood seats wiper motor washer fluid tank. I was going to take door bars out also but that looks like more pain that it's worth for a couple more lbs so I took out the door insulation while I was in there.
There is a weight reduction list I went down and took out Everything free and wanted to keep it looking nice not like a gutted civic....
Motorboy8769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2018, 11:08 AM   #37
acammer
Back in the game
 
acammer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS SGM
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Weedsport, NY
Posts: 1,511
On the subject of RPM I read something very interesting the other day that makes total sense, but I'd never thought of before. This will probably be old news for most of you, but if it helps somebody else whom is taking their SBE up into the stratosphere then it's worth sharing.

The subject was rods/ rod-bolts stretching and failing under high rpm, and what you can do to protect against that. Closing the throttle at high RPM is hard on the rod and rod-bolts because you take away the cushion of air resisting the rod trying to kiss the head under compression. You have no such cushion on the exhaust stroke, so when you take it away on the compression stroke as well (such as by closing the throttle quickly while still at 7000+ at the end of a quarter mile pass and leaving the car in gear) you double up those extreme stresses where the rod has to stop the pistons upward momentum and drag it back down.

It's really simple - but I'd never given that much thought. It's a pretty easy practice for me with an M6 to make sure I clutch in and then grab neutral at the end of a pass. Auto guys it will depend on the trans (some don't like to be stuffed into neutral at high speeds/rpm). Just stuff to think about as we're pushing these components in the stock bottom end further and further beyond their design envelope.
__________________
2011 2SS SGM - Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era PTB, GPI Rod-Mod and ported LS3 intake, BTR Platinum springs, GPI SS3 cam, American Racing Long Tube Headers 1.875", X-pipe, high flow cats, cutouts behind the axle. 25% under-drive pulley, 169*F T-stat, EE catch can, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and reservoir, Tick-Shift billet throwout support, Speedbleeder, Motive 4.10 gears, LPW Differential Cover, BMR Pro diff bushings, Pegasus Solid rear sub-frame bushings, 305/45/18 NT05R. Speedhut OBDII shift light. Tuned at New Age Hotrods - 497rwhp.
Selling an HPT Setup cheap? Message me!
acammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2018, 02:51 PM   #38
SSE 4 2SS
Boosted Moderator
 
SSE 4 2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: Bone Stock LS3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kyle Tx
Posts: 15,022
Send a message via AIM to SSE 4 2SS Send a message via Yahoo to SSE 4 2SS
Quote:
Originally Posted by acammer View Post

The subject was rods/ rod-bolts stretching and failing under high rpm, and what you can do to protect against that. Closing the throttle at high RPM is hard on the rod and rod-bolts because you take away the cushion of air resisting the rod trying to kiss the head under compression. You have no such cushion on the exhaust stroke, so when you take it away on the compression stroke as well (such as by closing the throttle quickly while still at 7000+ at the end of a quarter mile pass and leaving the car in gear) you double up those extreme stresses where the rod has to stop the pistons upward momentum and drag it back down.
Motorboy, (OP), nice ride. I like the weight loss program and the effort to this point. If you have not gotten air under the fronts yet, you're damned close..

As for the information above that I quoted... I would like to know who wrote this information and what the context was other than strictly a SBE motor.

1. I wouldn't think in most cases the SBE for the Camaro specifically is built to the minimal clearances this is implying. I would think a person would more likely strike the piston with a valve than crashing the piston into the cylinder head.

2. I can stomach that you might stress the rod's and rod bolts as well as the piston wrist pins, but I have to stipulate I've never seen windows created in block in the shut down area of a track... I've seen literally hundreds of windows created in the block on the racing surface, be it 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 the mile or on road and roundy round tracks.

3. I spin my LS motor up very close to 9,000 rpm (8700 rpm shift light) I usually manage to get off the throttle and shift by 8900 though I've run to 9,000 rpm quite a few times in lower gears since the motor pins up so fast.... It's tuned to that RPM. My motor is built to very tight clearances and I have a CAM with almost .800 lift. When dyno pulls are finished, the throttle is immediately lifted completely. When I finish a mile pass, the throttle is fully closed immediately after the chute is deployed fully. Full throttle to fully shut... I'm not saying there isn't any validity to the above story you referenced, but again I would like to know who the author is and what their legitimate background is.

4. I'll allow that an SBE set of rods, pistons and bolts may do lots of funny things. I never had any issues before I built my motor but it is possible as it is mechanical...

Video of a pull included with full throttle closure as the tires spun on the dyno at 8200~~ rpm... This was on moderate boost (20 lbs) making 1800 ish RWHP.

__________________
If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow. -Ross Bentley

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.
Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

“If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti

If you can turn, you ain't going fast enough...
SSE 4 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2018, 04:25 PM   #39
acammer
Back in the game
 
acammer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS SGM
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Weedsport, NY
Posts: 1,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
Motorboy, (OP), nice ride. I like the weight loss program and the effort to this point. If you have not gotten air under the fronts yet, you're damned close..

As for the information above that I quoted... I would like to know who wrote this information and what the context was other than strictly a SBE motor.
I was referencing this article here:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017...-rod-failures/

And some information that popped up in a Facebook discussion by GPI's Ryan Stevens:

"The reason rod bolts break on decel is because u kill the airflow at high engine speed and when the crank pulls on the piston/rod with the throttle closed it is much harder to pull the assy down in the cylinder.

It can cause the bolts to stretch and or break.

I program mine to still leave the throttle open some and clean shift to neutral so it doesn't engine brake"

In the case of Ryan Stevens quote it was directly relating to SBE LS3s doing big rpms on quarter mile passes.

And this thread here: http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=585314

Quote:
1. I wouldn't think in most cases the SBE for the Camaro specifically is built to the minimal clearances this is implying. I would think a person would more likely strike the piston with a valve than crashing the piston into the cylinder head.

2. I can stomach that you might stress the rod's and rod bolts as well as the piston wrist pins, but I have to stipulate I've never seen windows created in block in the shut down area of a track... I've seen literally hundreds of windows created in the block on the racing surface, be it 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 the mile or on road and roundy round tracks.
Agree - I haven't seen SBE LS3s kick the rods out - and I agree that a valve-train issue is far more likely to occur first. There are plenty of guys turning serious (7500+) rpms on the SBE for hundreds of passes - so it's not like this is some "OMG if you engine brake the motor at 7500 it's gonna kick the rods out" statement. I saw Ryan's statement on Facebook, it made sense to me, so I dug around a little and found other supporting evidence that vacuum loading the motor at high rpm is hard on the rods/bolts. Is it too hard on it - apparently not because they are staying together. Still - if there are simple steps (like not hanging the revs high under vacuum) I can take to extend the service life of the SBE I definitely want to take them.

Seemed like relevant discussion for this thread.

Is that a SBE your referring to in the pulls to 9000 rpm?
__________________
2011 2SS SGM - Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era PTB, GPI Rod-Mod and ported LS3 intake, BTR Platinum springs, GPI SS3 cam, American Racing Long Tube Headers 1.875", X-pipe, high flow cats, cutouts behind the axle. 25% under-drive pulley, 169*F T-stat, EE catch can, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and reservoir, Tick-Shift billet throwout support, Speedbleeder, Motive 4.10 gears, LPW Differential Cover, BMR Pro diff bushings, Pegasus Solid rear sub-frame bushings, 305/45/18 NT05R. Speedhut OBDII shift light. Tuned at New Age Hotrods - 497rwhp.
Selling an HPT Setup cheap? Message me!
acammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2018, 05:28 PM   #40
SSE 4 2SS
Boosted Moderator
 
SSE 4 2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: Bone Stock LS3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kyle Tx
Posts: 15,022
Send a message via AIM to SSE 4 2SS Send a message via Yahoo to SSE 4 2SS
Quote:
Originally Posted by acammer View Post
I was referencing this article here:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017...-rod-failures/

And some information that popped up in a Facebook discussion by GPI's Ryan Stevens:

"The reason rod bolts break on decel is because u kill the airflow at high engine speed and when the crank pulls on the piston/rod with the throttle closed it is much harder to pull the assy down in the cylinder.

It can cause the bolts to stretch and or break.

I program mine to still leave the throttle open some and clean shift to neutral so it doesn't engine brake"

In the case of Ryan Stevens quote it was directly relating to SBE LS3s doing big rpms on quarter mile passes.

And this thread here: http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=585314



Agree - I haven't seen SBE LS3s kick the rods out - and I agree that a valve-train issue is far more likely to occur first. There are plenty of guys turning serious (7500+) rpms on the SBE for hundreds of passes - so it's not like this is some "OMG if you engine brake the motor at 7500 it's gonna kick the rods out" statement. I saw Ryan's statement on Facebook, it made sense to me, so I dug around a little and found other supporting evidence that vacuum loading the motor at high rpm is hard on the rods/bolts. Is it too hard on it - apparently not because they are staying together. Still - if there are simple steps (like not hanging the revs high under vacuum) I can take to extend the service life of the SBE I definitely want to take them.

Seemed like relevant discussion for this thread.

Is that a SBE your referring to in the pulls to 9000 rpm?
Interesting and thanks for the reply.... I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just wanting to learn....

I'll take some time and read the articles later on.... Thanks for posting them.

In re: your question about my motor spinning to 9000 rpm, and is it an SBE... Far from it...

Final assembly was by ERL
Heads are AllPro, 6 bolt LSW12 - 4
Jesel Valve train
Tool Steel Pushrods
Callies Big Block Crank, 3.9 stroke
Ultra Billet Rods,
Ross Racing pistons, with ceramic tops
Ductile Iron Sleeves
Block is girdled and half filled
Dry sump oiling,
10.5 / 1 compression ratio

ETC...

This motor is designed for 9,000 rpm's, and more but we stop at 9K max.
Attached Images
      
__________________
If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow. -Ross Bentley

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.
Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

“If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti

If you can turn, you ain't going fast enough...
SSE 4 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2018, 08:01 PM   #41
acammer
Back in the game
 
acammer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS SGM
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Weedsport, NY
Posts: 1,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
Interesting and thanks for the reply.... I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just wanting to learn....

I'll take some time and read the articles later on.... Thanks for posting them.

In re: your question about my motor spinning to 9000 rpm, and is it an SBE... Far from it...

Final assembly was by ERL
Heads are AllPro, 6 bolt LSW12 - 4
Jesel Valve train
Tool Steel Pushrods
Callies Big Block Crank, 3.9 stroke
Ultra Billet Rods,
Ross Racing pistons, with ceramic tops
Ductile Iron Sleeves
Block is girdled and half filled
Dry sump oiling,
10.5 / 1 compression ratio

ETC...

This motor is designed for 9,000 rpm's, and more but we stop at 9K max.
No worries - I too like a good discussion - it's definitely relevant to this thread. Let me know what you think when you get a chance to read through some of that stuff. It makes good sense to me. Not sure that it matters a ton for the average heads/cam guy. I know my new combo is gonna want to shift in that 7200-7400 range. I should be able to trap at 6500 on a 26" tire - so it's not like it's gonna be hanging real high at the big end anyways. If I could get more gear in a stock rear I would.

Pretty neat seeing your wild setup with a clutch hanging off the back!
__________________
2011 2SS SGM - Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era PTB, GPI Rod-Mod and ported LS3 intake, BTR Platinum springs, GPI SS3 cam, American Racing Long Tube Headers 1.875", X-pipe, high flow cats, cutouts behind the axle. 25% under-drive pulley, 169*F T-stat, EE catch can, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and reservoir, Tick-Shift billet throwout support, Speedbleeder, Motive 4.10 gears, LPW Differential Cover, BMR Pro diff bushings, Pegasus Solid rear sub-frame bushings, 305/45/18 NT05R. Speedhut OBDII shift light. Tuned at New Age Hotrods - 497rwhp.
Selling an HPT Setup cheap? Message me!
acammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2018, 10:42 PM   #42
SSE 4 2SS
Boosted Moderator
 
SSE 4 2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: Bone Stock LS3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kyle Tx
Posts: 15,022
Send a message via AIM to SSE 4 2SS Send a message via Yahoo to SSE 4 2SS
Quote:
Originally Posted by acammer View Post
No worries - I too like a good discussion - it's definitely relevant to this thread. Let me know what you think when you get a chance to read through some of that stuff. It makes good sense to me. Not sure that it matters a ton for the average heads/cam guy. I know my new combo is gonna want to shift in that 7200-7400 range. I should be able to trap at 6500 on a 26" tire - so it's not like it's gonna be hanging real high at the big end anyways. If I could get more gear in a stock rear I would.

Pretty neat seeing your wild setup with a clutch hanging off the back!
I looked at the build information of your car in your signature.... I bet with those rear gears the car launches pretty well already... though we all want more...

I went the other direction and run 3.07 rear gears.... and in standing mile racing I hang on a lot of RPM's for quite a while... Especially in 4th and 5th gear.... Throwing 2,000 plus RWHP against the driveline for a half mile is tough on EVERYTHING... As far as launches.... Imagine a battleship in thick mud... Yeah, it launches harder than my car... My power band is 6,000 to 9,000 rpm, and with my gearing I'm doing about 60 mph at the 1/8th mile... and then I'm 145-150 at the 1/4 mile... between 180 and 190 at the half and 225.8 so far at the mile... Car has a lot more, but we have to get everything working together and toss in the driver MOD...
__________________
If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow. -Ross Bentley

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.
Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

“If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti

If you can turn, you ain't going fast enough...
SSE 4 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.