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Old 08-24-2020, 06:44 PM   #1
Big Biscuits
 
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IATís, How high is too high?

I have looked high and low for an answer. Nothing solid. I know some N/A cars can run high iat’s but cool off during a run. What about boosted cars? Mine will hit 150* from 100* in the 1/8th mile. I’m E85 with a wastegate to limit top end boost.
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Old 08-24-2020, 11:25 PM   #2
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I've been told numerous values, one being not to worry until you're over 200*F (when running E85). I eased up my IAT timing tables quite a bit with no observable negative effects. I have been testing a 100% distilled water injection system (because cheaper and non-corrosive) and have had pretty good results. For instance, w/o H2O injection and a 11.5psi run-out, I went from 102*F to 140*F (38*F increase). Turn on the H2O injection and I had a 82*F to 91*F (9*F increase). I also think it adds 3-4% fueling, the widebands say I'm slightly richer. I guess H2O adds some octane.
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Old 08-25-2020, 05:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Biscuits View Post
I have looked high and low for an answer. Nothing solid. I know some N/A cars can run high iatís but cool off during a run. What about boosted cars? Mine will hit 150* from 100* in the 1/8th mile.
Do you still have the waste-gate setup on that blower? Maybe over spinning it and bleeding off boost is causing the higher temps.

In Florida, in about 92 degree (wet) heat, I've never seen over 137*f. And thats after a few 60-140 pulls. Normal iat's are 100-125ish for short street pulls. I have definitely noticed over my progression with this blower, moving down in pulley sizes, the faster you spin it, the hotter it gets. However when comparing to other superchargers, my temps are fairly low.

Sorry I dont have the answer for you. Just watch the KR.

I can say that from talking to a local tuner, he has seen some ProChargers in the 170 range, and highly suggested they add meth.
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Old 08-25-2020, 06:49 AM   #4
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Its apples to oranges but I'm non intercooled on m1. My iats were over 400 degrees before making some changes. It still went mid 5s on 25psi like that. I dont have knock sensors either, I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

But for e85 as stated over about 200-250 id start pulling some timing
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Old 08-25-2020, 06:53 AM   #5
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Its apples to oranges but I'm non intercooled on m1. My iats were over 400 degrees before making some changes. It still went mid 5s on 25psi like that. I dont have knock sensors either, I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

But for e85 as stated over about 200-250 id start pulling some timing
LMAO
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Old 08-25-2020, 08:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eLeSthree View Post
Do you still have the waste-gate setup on that blower? Maybe over spinning it and bleeding off boost is causing the higher temps.

In Florida, in about 92 degree (wet) heat, I've never seen over 137*f. And thats after a few 60-140 pulls. Normal iat's are 100-125ish for short street pulls. I have definitely noticed over my progression with this blower, moving down in pulley sizes, the faster you spin it, the hotter it gets. However when comparing to other superchargers, my temps are fairly low.

Sorry I dont have the answer for you. Just watch the KR.

I can say that from talking to a local tuner, he has seen some ProChargers in the 170 range, and highly suggested they add meth.

Yeah, I am too chicken spit to go full tilt like you. I will say it is a blast to drive wastegated to 15 psi. I just need to ease my mind.
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Old 08-25-2020, 08:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreksnot View Post
I've been told numerous values, one being not to worry until you're over 200*F (when running E85). I eased up my IAT timing tables quite a bit with no observable negative effects. I have been testing a 100% distilled water injection system (because cheaper and non-corrosive) and have had pretty good results. For instance, w/o H2O injection and a 11.5psi run-out, I went from 102*F to 140*F (38*F increase). Turn on the H2O injection and I had a 82*F to 91*F (9*F increase). I also think it adds 3-4% fueling, the widebands say I'm slightly richer. I guess H2O adds some octane.
Very interesting. Just enough to cool hot spots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttshovel View Post
Its apples to oranges but I'm non intercooled on m1. My iats were over 400 degrees before making some changes. It still went mid 5s on 25psi like that. I dont have knock sensors either, I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

But for e85 as stated over about 200-250 id start pulling some timing
Ha! I think I have an idea, Tee shirt, "Don't let knock sensors tell you how to live your life." Or, " Knock sensors are for city boys." I like it.

One day I will be wide open too. Thanks for the input. Makes me feel better about letting her rip.
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Old 08-25-2020, 09:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreksnot View Post
I've been told numerous values, one being not to worry until you're over 200*F (when running E85). I eased up my IAT timing tables quite a bit with no observable negative effects. I have been testing a 100% distilled water injection system (because cheaper and non-corrosive) and have had pretty good results. For instance, w/o H2O injection and a 11.5psi run-out, I went from 102*F to 140*F (38*F increase). Turn on the H2O injection and I had a 82*F to 91*F (9*F increase). I also think it adds 3-4% fueling, the widebands say I'm slightly richer. I guess H2O adds some octane.
What do you think about this? There's only so much space in the combustion chamber for fuel, air and now water. Adding water displaces some of the air making your AFR look rich. Not sure about adding octane, but I'm pretty sure since it lowers IAT's it slows the burning of the fuel which is what higher octane does. Telling me I'm wrong is OK, but please explain why so I learn. I'm a tuner in progress here.
Thanks
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Old 08-25-2020, 06:49 PM   #9
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What do you think about this? There's only so much space in the combustion chamber for fuel, air and now water. Adding water displaces some of the air making your AFR look rich. Not sure about adding octane, but I'm pretty sure since it lowers IAT's it slows the burning of the fuel which is what higher octane does. Telling me I'm wrong is OK, but please explain why so I learn. I'm a tuner in progress here.
Thanks

I believe adding water acts has a flame inhibitor. Isn't that what octane is? Have seen a few write-ups about it. Might try the Google thing.
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Old 08-25-2020, 09:42 PM   #10
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Or look into the Alky meth kits. A member has once for sale right now in the classified for a good price. A meth kit would lower your IATs dramatically and add horses (35-40?) if you want to run one.
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Old 08-25-2020, 09:43 PM   #11
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I believe adding water acts has a flame inhibitor. Isn't that what octane is? Have seen a few write-ups about it. Might try the Google thing.
What pump do you use? Any pics? Iím assuming same setup as meth?
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Biscuits View Post
I have looked high and low for an answer. Nothing solid. I know some N/A cars can run high iatís but cool off during a run. What about boosted cars? Mine will hit 150* from 100* in the 1/8th mile.
If you are seeing that much of a temp delta in that short a distance you need a larger intercooler and larger blower.

You may also look in to moving your air intake, Filter to a cooler location.

Are your headers coated, look for ways to reduce underhood temps.

I would expect to see 50 degrees over a 1/4 mile on a good set up.

But there are many factors that effect this number and you need to take all things in to consideration.

There is no denying cooler is better, Cooler Denser air can burn more fuel on each combustion cycle.

Pissing on the fire is a bandaid for the real problem.

Ted.
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:56 AM   #13
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What pump do you use? Any pics? Iím assuming same setup as meth?
I had clean plans for an install if the mock-up/prototype setup worked well. I ordered two Snow 300psi pumps (only using one), a 3" Mishimoto Silicone Coupler with molded in 1/8" NPT Bung for the 1340ml/min injection nozzle that I replaced the intercooler outlet coupler with, and some 1/4" tubing and all the more-than-I-needed-fittings. This setup is spray before MAF because I wanted to see the air temp heading into the manifold. Just using the windshield washer fluid reservoir for testing. Using my Cortex EBC as the progressive controller (boost vs rpm). My example above was using only 23% pump duty cycle. I've notice I can overspray and get spark quench, if I go greater than 50%. Another negative effect is that the suspended water really jacks with the MAF sensor providing crazy airflows (see attached picture with the >50% spray, 2nd plot with green & blue MAF values magnified and sawblade - guess that's the water).

So, now that it works as I hoped except the 1340 nozzle is a little big for my application, going to install something like the flush with carpet mounted PNR Weld tank in the battery well, put the pump back there, and clean everything up. Can be pretty and fast!
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreksnot View Post
I had clean plans for an install if the mock-up/prototype setup worked well. I ordered two Snow 300psi pumps (only using one), a 3" Mishimoto Silicone Coupler with molded in 1/8" NPT Bung for the 1340ml/min injection nozzle that I replaced the intercooler outlet coupler with, and some 1/4" tubing and all the more-than-I-needed-fittings. This setup is spray before MAF because I wanted to see the air temp heading into the manifold. Just using the windshield washer fluid reservoir for testing. Using my Cortex EBC as the progressive controller (boost vs rpm). My example above was using only 23% pump duty cycle. I've notice I can overspray and get spark quench, if I go greater than 50%. Another negative effect is that the suspended water really jacks with the MAF sensor providing crazy airflows (see attached picture with the >50% spray, 2nd plot with green & blue MAF values magnified and sawblade - guess that's the water).

So, now that it works as I hoped except the 1340 nozzle is a little big for my application, going to install something like the flush with carpet mounted PNR Weld tank in the battery well, put the pump back there, and clean everything up. Can be pretty and fast!


Would you always need to run the spray for street application? Iím assuming you do.
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