Shno's House of Z

[Blizzard]

FALL 2014!!!!!!!

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/art...urns-2014.html

Last part says this here.

PREPARE FOR DEPARTURE
Chevrolet surprised the world and introduced this ground-shaking vision of American performance, available Fall 2014.

Please tell me its a typo. For once I want something related to the Z28 to be a typo.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

FALL 2014!!!!!!!

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/art...urns-2014.html

Last part says this here.

PREPARE FOR DEPARTURE
Chevrolet surprised the world and introduced this ground-shaking vision of American performance, available Fall 2014.

Please tell me its a typo. For once I want something related to the Z28 to be a typo.

There was no official release date provided at the NYCIAS. Reading the tea leaves I am guessing 2014 Q1 no later than Q2 deliveries.

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I'm diggin' that low end. What would I be losing (in your opinion)?

You wouldn't lose anything. It depends on how GM treats the depreciated out LS7. If we are talking about parts and labor ONLY the LS7 becomes a bargain. If they apply standard loads it is a big bump in Z/28 build cost.

Mark has been building Pro-Touring style 67 - 69 Camaros with the ZL1 brakes for a couple of years. I have not cross referenced the carbon ceramic brake package, but I am thinking it is the same one used on the C6 ZL1. If they are 'spare parts' and not a completely new system that changes the cost - IF GM wants to change the cost.

The Z/28 is lowered with the 19s and had to be crash tested. That is a huge cost for a small production number.

If the Z/28 is designed to be a break even build run and used as a marketing sledge hammer they will leverage every thing they can to bring the MSRP in at the lowest possible number. If the Z/28 is built to deliver a profitable vehicle run the MSRP will be at the higher end. In the new GM, everyone is required to make smart and sound business decisions. That puts the Z/28 well North of the ZL1.

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

Does anyone have any specifics / experience on carbon ceramic rotors vs. steel?

The press release says: “Compared to similar-size, two-piece steel rotors, the lightweight carbon discs save 28 pounds (12.5 kilograms) per car”

I have heard that the diameter of a ceramic rotor needs to be larger than the equivalent steel rotor to produce the same stopping power, therefore, the weight reduction may not be as significant as it might seem.

For example, from what I can tell (from the interweb) the OEM ZR1 CC rotor weighs ~16.2 lbs while the Viper ACR Stoptech 2 piece (aluminum hat) rotor weighs ~17.8 lbs. The Viper rotors save ~32 lbs from the standard coupe one piece steel rotor; I'm assuming a CC rotor may only shave a few more pounds.

My point being are the carbon ceramic rotors really worth the added cost at the end of the day; other than a slight weight advantage what are the major benefits over a proper two piece steel rotor? Not that they aren’t awesome just a discussion point.

The advantage of CC rotors is they LOVE heat. The hotter they get the better they grip. Combine that performance with lower weight and you have a significant on track advantage. Some of the Z/28's 3 second advantage over that oh so slow Joe ZL1 is in the brakes.

#3 can speak to all of these

[LOWDOWN]

The 2014 brochure states "Spring 2014" on Page 2, so expect a 16 to 18 month run...

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Oh and ShnO, I love everything, but the rear (which I hear can be changed). Thanks.

Now we need ya to see it in person..... I think you will like the rear end....

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Now we need ya to see it in person..... I think you will like the rear end....

Thanks. That would be great.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Number 3

LS7 vs LSA is at least 10k, Z07 for Corvette minus MR is still a 5 k option. Yes A/c may have been an option in the old days but now you will pay for the engineering to remove it. You will pay not only Goethe low volume wiring harness but the cost to test and engineer it.

This car is wayyyyyy more than just add and subtract parts. It's the cost to engineer and buy LOW volume parts. And spread that engineering over a small number of cars and the price only goes up.

Can't just add and subtract parts.

Fair enough. I trust you WAY more than I trust pretty much anybody else - including myself, when it comes to these matters.

If it goes much past 60k then that's a decision I won't have to make. I'll be totally OK with that either way as long as its mostly parts and engineering that drive the price up. I would prefer for the Z/28 to smoke everything in sight, even if I can't afford one. My heart is Camaro true, and whichever one I get, it will start with a Z.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

Fair enough. I trust you WAY more than I trust pretty much anybody else - including myself, when it comes to these matters.

If it goes much past 60k then that's a decision I won't have to make. I'll be totally OK with that either way as long as its mostly parts and engineering that drive the price up. I would prefer for the Z/28 to smoke everything in sight, even if I can't afford one. My heart is Camaro true, and whichever one I get, it will start with a Z.

There are things at play that I have no clue on. The big thing is how much does GM need to add for the LS7. The Z06 when it launched had wider wheels and tires, Aluminum frame, magnesium cradle, limited options (in the first year we took out the power decklid latch to save 2kg, bastards put it back in to help the cry babies that couldn't close their hatches ) all the coolers for brakes and axles annnnnnnd the LS7. That alone was a $20,000 bump over a base Corvette. So do you assume the "base" Camaro is an SS or an 1LE?

GM could elect to do some big company number crunching and put what was a $20,000 engine from GMPP as a crate motor in the Camaro for whatever price they want.

Think of it this way. The ZL1 already beats the Boss and GT500 around the track. The Z28 has no competition.

My only fear is that the volumes will be so low that you'll simply see collectors buy them and they'll sit in heated garages and never see the track. If I were to buy one (and it would be with my family discount and no premiums which isn't really likely to happen) I'd do so simply knowing I had one. I doubt I'd ever take it to the track.

So more of my thoughts on this car.

I think they did some great things and went to great lengths. Eliminating the wires for fog lamps for example. Most cars have one harness the has all the wires in there. Taking this step, which requires engineering and validation proves to me the lengths they went to.

They did unique glass, again simple and probably wasn't new tooling. But it's in the details.

The rear seat details are another huge example. They could have cheaped out and just removed it. Instead you have a rear seat, light weighted and can take 4 people just like in a regular Camaro but they went the extra step if nothing more than to thumb their nose at Ford who just cheaped out.

When you think of the weight they added back in (LS7 with dry sump oil reservoir, axle coolers etc.) losing 100 pounds is a huge deal. When I worked on the Z06, we did aluminum frame and Carbon Fiber to lose 165 pounds in the body. The LS7, bigger wheels and tires etc. ate most of that back up. So a no kidding 100 pounds is HUGE.

Making A/C optional is also a huge deal and VERY symbolic. A retro move for sure.

Now for me, I love the car. It is an engineering feat. That being said, I'm not sure about the ceramic brakes. Yes a huge technology jump and a huge performance jump. But if you aren't driving this to the track every weekend instead of golfing, or boating or whatever your hobby is, this is OVERKILL. But it is a giant performance differentiator. As Pete says, they will run all day long and not fade. Just don't wear them out cuz they are $2,500 a corner to replace. They make an Audi brake job look cheap.

This car simply has F/U written all over it. They could have made a 1LE with the LS7 and made a ton of people happy. But that car would probably only just run with a ZL1. Think about it. The only real weight loss compared to the ZL1 is the loss of the supercharger and you would be down 80 hp. That car has no reason for being other than the LS7, which for me, anyway would be reason enough. So to make the Z28 a car that will school the ZR1 at the track it took "additional measures". That would be 300 pounds down and brakes from the very best car GM has the Z06/ZR1. Note the use of Z all around.

So the Z28s reason for being is that it is far faster around the track than any Camaro probably EVER. And not by just a little bit. And to have a reason for being will price a lot of us out of the market no matter how much time we spend in The House wishing and wanting.

I'd also like a decent stereo. But that's just me

[ShnOmac]

Very informative post Jim!


For chits and giggles I hope they take it to the 'Ring....

[2cnd chance]

Awesome perspective Number 3. This reminds me of the old days when we would analyze all things Z. And yes the big shocker for me was the CC brakes as well.

[2cnd chance]

Anybody want to guess what production cars could beat the Z28 on a track like VIR?

I'll start, Ferrari 458.

[JusticePete]

What automobile that sells for $85,000 can run with a Z/28?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Anybody want to guess what production cars could beat the Z28 on a track like VIR?

I'll start, Ferrari 458.

Funny, we used to consider Ferraris as "rareified air" cars...but me thinks more 458s will be built than Z/28s...

[JusticePete]

How many collectors will buy the new Z/28 Just to have one?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

What automobile that sells for $85,000 can run with a Z/28?

I desperately want t see a Z28 run against a Z06.

Keep in mind I've wanted a Z06 simply because I worked on the Aluminum frame and all that Carbon Fiber goodness.

I also love Camaros because of the place that name plate holds for me emotionally. My life has been so deeply impacted by the Camaro in both good ways and tragic.

So even if worse case they are the same money, and I think the Camaro will be much less expensive than the "other Z" this will be a toss up for me if it ever comes to that decision.