Are we nearing the end of the muscle car?

[StoutFiles]

Due to the new CAFE standards for 2020, is there any hope of muscle cars (and other fun gas guzzlers) surviving that?

[thecamaroguy]

The muscle car returned after the huge restrictions in the 70s...I don't think it will kill them. Just make the engineers do things differently.

[TomServo]

I think the definition of "muscle car" will most likely change relative to the other cars being manufactured at the time.

Will they be a "shell" of themselves" like they were in the mid 70's, most likely.

Hell I bought a 1975 Trans Am with my re-enlistment bonus - 400 CI's and 180HP. But then again at the time it was still one the fastest cars being sold. The Mustang was a joke then and the Camaro and Dodge’s had similar HP.

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by thecamaroguy

The muscle car returned after the huge restrictions in the 70s...I don't think it will kill them. Just make the engineers do things differently.

I agree with this

[dieseldave24v]

I think there is a very good chance that the big discplacment V-8 powered muscle car as we know it will be gone. Fast cars will always be around. I would speculate that we will see more turbos, superchargers, direct injection, Vairable valve timming and other technologies that have yet to be introduced.

I fear that the electric car may start to take this market in the next 20 years. Maybe they will be great, but without the rumble it just wouldnt be a muscle car

[odie23]

Originally Posted by StoutFiles

Due to the new CAFE standards for 2020, is there any hope of muscle cars (and other fun gas guzzlers) surviving that?

Good question hard to answer. I'm wondering if the American auto industry is going to survive, period. About the only thing I (think) I understand is that that gasoline will be around (internal combustion engine) for awhile, it might be expensive as heck, but it will be around.
So what's a musclehead to do? If you can afford one, buy one and never sell it. It might be worth more than your 401K in 30 years

[radz28]

I agree that we are facing the end of musclecars/maybe sportscars as we know them. With the shift toward being more green and such I don't think the automakers will survive unless they start investing in development that will lead to the requirements the government is putting on them. It seemed like they used to be able to to sell us cars we wanted - but I guess the government can now tell us what to buy by forcing the automakers to make cars the government feels we need. Sorry; I'm not trying to get into politics but this is what it seems like.

[Hylton]

You are going to see more of GM's R&D money go into plants like the one they are building for the Volt engine. This factory will be geared towards highly fuel efficient engines. I think any increase in HP will be a bi-product of looking for increased efficiency.

[DGthe3]

The muscle cars will become rarer and less afforable. They won't go away completely, but it will be hard for any automaker to sell 10's of thousands of V8 powered cars and still meet fuel economy standards. So they will jack up the price to discurage buyers and to cover potential penalties. The biggeset impact that CAFE will have is that make all cars less affordable, if the government wanted the people to use less gas it would help build better mass transit and offer more incentives to go electric/hydrogen/bio fuel.

[headpunter]

people are looking at this the wrong way....not what do we have to give up because of cafe, but what do we have to do to give up cafe itself.

[Mr. Wyndham]

True "Muscle Cars" have been gone for some time...that designation has been reduced to an affectionate nickname for what we drive now. I believe what we have now are honest-to-goodness sports cars. They handle twisties well (or better than well), they're comfortable, and much much more than your old big-displacment, lumpy-cam, gas-guzzling, thunderstorm of a car. I mean...what muscle car ever had money invested into four-piston Brembos on all corners and a sophisticated IRS?

Still...performance is going anywhere. What we'll see, I think, is a shift in how that performance is produced....

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by StoutFiles

Is there any hope of muscle cars surviving the new CAFE standards?

Short answer? No. Absolutely not.

Originally Posted by TomServo

The definition of "muscle car" will most likely change relative to the other cars being manufactured at the time. They will most likely be a "shell" of themselves like they were in the mid '70s.

The Camaro and Challenger both snuck in under the wire, as both programs were approved years ago. Neither one would be approved if they were up for management review today. They may both die at the end of the current cycle in five years or so.

Originally Posted by dieseldave24v

I think there is a very good chance that the big displacement V-8 powered muscle car as we know it will be gone. Fast cars will always be around. I would speculate that we will see more turbos, superchargers, direct injection, Variable valve timing and other technologies that have yet to be introduced.

If there is a next version of the Camaro or the Challenger, it will be engineered for better fuel economy and the current 6+ liter V8 engines will be replaced by smaller engines using some of these technologies, to be sure.

Originally Posted by odie23

I'm wondering if the American auto industry is going to survive, period. If you can afford one of the current muscle cars, buy it and never sell it.

Exactly the reason I am saving to buy a 2SS/RS Camaro in two years. These are the last (and best) of the current muscle car era. Since I do not need another car, I would prefer to save up and pay cash for a Camaro.

Originally Posted by radz282003

I agree that we are facing the end of musclecars/sportscars as we know them. I don't think the automakers will survive unless they start investing in development that will lead to the requirements the government is putting on them.

No additional money will be spent by American car manufacturers on developing performance vehicles other than Corvettes and Cadillacs. The high-tech V8 replacement for the Cadillac Northstar engine was already killed off. And even the next-gen C7 Corvette program has been shelved indefinitely.

Originally Posted by Hylton

You are going to see more of GM's R&D money go into plants like the one they are building for the Volt engine. This factory will be geared towards highly fuel efficient engines.

Quite true. There will be no funds for future generations of muscle cars.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Muscle cars will become rarer and less afforable.

Even during the woeful "performance" years of the mid-seventies and early '80s, the rich could still purchase Ferraris and Porsches, etcetera. Knowing that the Hollywood elite still want their exotics, California has even declared automakers who build less than 50,000 cars per year (hello Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin) exempt from their latest round of restrictions on emissions. There will be high performance cars in the future, but only the rich will be able to afford them.

[camaro&T/A]

Originally Posted by dieseldave24v

I think there is a very good chance that the big discplacment V-8 powered muscle car as we know it will be gone. Fast cars will always be around. I would speculate that we will see more turbos, superchargers, direct injection, Vairable valve timming and other technologies that have yet to be introduced.

I fear that the electric car may start to take this market in the next 20 years. Maybe they will be great, but without the rumble it just wouldnt be a muscle car

I think that is the key phrase. big displacement musclecars will be replaced by small displacement, but still V8, musclecars. I mean, if GM can make a 6.0 liter port injected V8 have 400 hp and get 28 mpg imagine what they can do with DI.

[shank0668]

My 78 vette only has 220 hp and its pitiful