2010 Camaro SS supercharger -- THE FIRST TVS2300 Magna Charger

[GTPprix]

Originally Posted by Crowley

If you talk with Whipple, I bet they will tell you the same thing .. it is a waste of time going with the larger blower unless you want to crank up the boost ... So yes, I'm talking about positive displacement blowers

Crowley

Exactly the same thing my friends at Powertrain told me, if the LS9 had been 10.7:1 it would have had a 1900 on it. Heck everyone at Magnuson even said unless I was planning on turning up the boost or going big cube the only thing the 2300 would get me is more power to turn it LOL

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by TT C6

Well, considering GM chose the 2300 for 530rwhp, AND Magna chose the 2300 for the LS3, I guess you are arguing a mute point, aren't you?

Not really .. as a matter of fact .. take a look at the 2 upgrades for the GT500 .. I bet they act the same .. the difference .. one is good to 25 PSI the other is good to 30 PSI ..

I'm pretty sure I have seen results for LS3s with the 1900 and it looked like it performed pretty good to me

Again .. if your application is for higher boost go for the larger displacement charger. Which is what I thought we were discussing here ....

EDIT: if the kits that are being sold are the 2300s then really not much of a choice and it is nice that we know if you build the block correctly, you have greater potential .. my point is that in the lower BOOST applications that we will see on a stock LS3, there isn't going to be a reason to choose the 2300 over the 1900 ..

Crowley

[TT C6]

Originally Posted by GTPprix

Heck everyone at Magnuson even said unless I was planning on turning up the boost or going big cube the only thing the 2300 would get me is more power to turn it LOL

Heck, the SAME people that sold you that are now choosing the 2300 for their new system.

Originally Posted by Crowley

I'm pretty sure I have seen results for LS3s with the 1900 and it looked like it performed pretty good to me

Yeah. That exact car is being shipped back to MTI Racing for the SECOND time as we speak because it has died on the side of the road TWICE with no explanation. So, I wouldn't say that car is performing "pretty good" if you asked me.

Originally Posted by Crowley

lower BOOST applications that we will see on a stock LS3, there isn't going to be a reason to choose the 2300 over the 1900 ..

Yes there is. Lower intake temps, more belt wrap, and the expandability factor you just mentioned. With ONLY 7psi, a 2.6 Liter Kenne Bell on a bone stock LS3 just put down 550rwhp. So, bigger can be better in this example.

[GTPprix]

Originally Posted by TT C6

And the SAME people that sold you that are now choosing the 2300 for their new system.

And again I'll take GM Powertrains input over yours (since they have actual experience) any day LOL

I do find it funny that you get yourself banned all over the internet trying to talk about these blowers like you have any ACTUAL experience with them, especially to people who ACTUALLY do LOL

[davidj]

Originally Posted by TT C6

Think for yourself, people. Do your own research.

As far as the extra money...the 2300 cost $400 more than the 1900.
The 1900 comes stock on a $60,000 CTS-V. The 2300 comes stock on a $120,000 ZR1.
If you are sweating $400, forced induction (and modding in general) is NOT for you.

First off I did'nt know how much of a price difference there was between the two, so Im not "sweating" $400. Second, you're missing the whole point in your rant. If there is no reason to go with a larger S/C then why do it? I for one do not want to take my engine to the limit. A 100 or so extra RWHP is great. And maybe with the 1900, it will have more power in the middle verses the 2300. Thats why I want to see a comparison. Also, comparing a CTS and a ZR1 is apples and oranges.

[Crowley]

I just can't argue with someone who doesn't know what he is talking about .. you got me . Your KB Comparison on an LS3 isn't valid .. 2 different blowers .. I bet that have different internals as well ... Put a smaller KB on that car at that PSI and I bet you make the same HP ..

Anyway .. for everyone else who wants real data, do your own research and come to your own conclusions. If the kits available offer the 2300, there is no reason NOT to buy it ! .. I'm done with this thread .. lol

Crowley

[GTPprix]

Ok so getting back on topic, from all the ACTUAL research I've done if you intend on staying stock cube and not running huge boost the 1900 is going to be the best bet for you. At the boost levels you are likely to be running the blower takes less power to turn and has amazing temp characteristics.

If you are thinking big cube OR forged stock cube big boost the 2300 would likely be the better choice but for 95% of us I'm guessing the 1900 is the way to go and if the kit comes out with a 2300 only, no big deal right?

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by GTPprix

Ok so getting back on topic, from all the ACTUAL research I've done if you intend on staying stock cube and not running huge boost the 1900 is going to be the best bet for you. At the boost levels you are likely to be running the blower takes less power to turn and has amazing temp characteristics.

If you are thinking big cube OR forged stock cube big boost the 2300 would likely be the better choice but for 95% of us I'm guessing the 1900 is the way to go and if the kit comes out with a 2300 only, no big deal right?

Hi Chris;
That was my original point as you precisouly put it. Based on the research (not an actual hands on) I've come to the same conclusion. And the reason I brought it up, because I noticed, a TVS1900 on a LS3 Vette neted more than TVS2300 on LS3 Camaro, which they both produce the same HP at crank. So, my only conclusion was/is that TVS2300 draws more power and therefore your net is less.
These is one thing that I like about Turbos, is that, you don't give up power and there is less stress on the engine. But you have to deal with lots of other issues.
My only surprise is that, Magnachrger is running this blower on a 6-rib. Trust me, as soon as you punch it, you'll hear the belt sliping and feel the power drops. But their R&D isn't finished yet.That's something that Techo has taken care of even with low boost.

Lots of interesting stuff to learn!

[Boost]

I thought I might add some things on the Blower size debate, over
the years we have played alot with sizing on screw and roots blowers and found that you need to look at all the areas in what the blower is going to do, a small blower that has to run much faster to make the same amount of CFM is going to make more heat and can actually use more power to make the same HP, (if the blower out put is hotter it will take more boost to compensate for power) 2300s have started to become the industry std in the last few years for most large V8 applcations especially in the true screw blowers, the 2300 was std on the Ford GT (40) Saleen 4.6 Mustang, Saleen 5.3 Truck and the Ford Harley Davidson Truck, not to mention now the ZR1. Older blowers with poor bypass systems had a lot of parasitic losses while driving in off boost conditions, and the larger blowers suffered in fuel mileage, with the new designs in bypass systems this gap is pretty much gone.
I wont ramble anymore, but will be happy to answer any questions you might have, as do have just a small bit of esperience with SC & Turbo systems
Thanks
Billy

[GTPprix]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

Hi Chris;
That was my original point as you precisouly put it. Based on the research (not an actual hands on) I've come to the same conclusion. And the reason I brought it up, because I noticed, a TVS1900 on a LS3 Vette neted more than TVS2300 on LS3 Camaro, which they both produce the same HP at crank. So, my only conclusion was/is that TVS2300 draws more power and therefore your net is less.
These is one thing that I like about Turbos, is that, you don't give up power and there is less stress on the engine. But you have to deal with lots of other issues.
My only surprise is that, Magnachrger is running this blower on a 6-rib. Trust me, as soon as you punch it, you'll hear the belt sliping and feel the power drops. But their R&D isn't finished yet.That's something that Techo has taken care of even with low boost.

Lots of interesting stuff to learn!

Yup this is the fun stuff!

To the belt slip end I can comment on the 1900 only and again the extra force/power to drive the 2300 will obviously differ BUT I've run a 3.0" (down from 3.3" on my 1900 and have zero slip so far with the supplied belt and there is always the gatorback On my setup I had to redo the water pump and routing due to the fact the 09.5 G8's have a new water pump design so consequently I've got some pretty great belt wrap



Thats with the 3.3" but so far knock on wood no slippage!

On the fuel system however the Camaro tank looks physically identical to the G8 tank with the addition of two ports at the rear for EVAP that the G8 has the bosses for so hopefully my fuel system solution will help you guys as well!

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by GTPprix

Yup this is the fun stuff!

To the belt slip end I can comment on the 1900 only and again the extra force/power to drive the 2300 will obviously differ BUT I've run a 3.0" (down from 3.3" on my 1900 and have zero slip so far with the supplied belt and there is always the gatorback On my setup I had to redo the water pump and routing due to the fact the 09.5 G8's have a new water pump design so consequently I've got some pretty great belt wrap

Thats with the 3.3" but so far knock on wood no slippage!

On the fuel system however the Camaro tank looks physically identical to the G8 tank with the addition of two ports at the rear for EVAP that the G8 has the bosses for so hopefully my fuel system solution will help you guys as well!

That's a lot of belt running all that stuff.
Chris, have you looked at Techo belt system? Real nice. Go take a look. It reduces a lot stress on the other components and you will get like a stand alone 8-rib just for the blower. There is one video that the chief designer shows the 8-rib. (not trying to hijack this thread).

[GTPprix]

Oh I'm so gonna check that out Thanks for the heads up!

[m1tankr]

It's all sort of a moot point. Magnacharger is/are the experts on their system and have done their testing on their system. Not GM's intake and intercooler set-up. They have decided that the 2300 is the way to go for the Camaro app with their equpment. Gm has emission and durability and supply and equipment concerns that aren't the same as Maganchargers. I've run their blower on my GTO and was happy w/it. I'll probably run their blower when I get my Camaro and trust them. If I wanted GM's set-up, I'd get their set-up.

[KILLER74Z28]

Originally Posted by Croathlete

Just from doing my own research on what the Vette guys are seeing...

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1568994009-post32.html



Looks like for those who will be keeping the 6.2L, the TVS1900 actually makes more sense...unless someone else can tell me why the above is incorrect.

EDIT: Even if the TVS2300 makes more power, isn't ~550rwhp around the max a stock Camaro drivetrain can handle?

We where told at Indy that they had tested the drive-train at 700 + and had no issues? There are a few other members that were witness to this conversation…