LS3 minimum requirements? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

marsmann · 11-24-2014, 09:14 AM

Hi all.

Did a search, was not able to find a hit on what I was looking for. I have a '12 SS vert that I'm happy with and it is stock. My background is primarily with pre 90 cars, carburetion, basic fuel injection, etc. I only know the basics when it comes to late model cars and advanced engine management systems, etc.

So my question is -- what is the bare minimum I need to run an LS3 motor? I have an opportunity to get an LS3 and trans from an accident damaged Camaro and thought about pulling the drivetrain to install in a 60's chevy. I know many have done swaps, and I know there are ls1 crate kits you can buy but if I wanted to install this motor -- I assume I need all of its computer modules (engine/trans) to go with it but is there anything else I am missing?

I've read horror stories about swaps with gauge clusters not working, engines not turning over requiring !@#$ programming, etc. I just want to drop this in, give it 12v and essentially run. So if anyone know what I would need at a minimum that would be great.

Any advice/input appreciated. thanks!

402 · 11-24-2014, 09:33 AM

If you want to stay efi, grab a harness and a ecu that us from a ls3 car. Yes, if will need to be "tuned" from a shop with something like hptuners or efi live. But I would recommend that anyway. Couple things need to be turn off for it to run. Little extra wiring but nothing a 1000 threads already cover.

Another option is switching it to a carb. I am not fond of carbs but it does work. There are kits out there that supply the carb and the ignitin controller to still use the factory ignition coils. Just slap it own, a little wiring and start.

marsmann · 11-24-2014, 09:43 AM

Thanks for the info, 402. Obviously efi is far more efficient but maybe something in between, like a tbi instead of a carb would work. I haven't done much research yet on how to possibly get it going on an older car but I do like the idea of eliminating all non-essential sensors and just running it on one main default setting.

even a 'degraded' ls3 on carb or tbi would be leaps and bounds compared to the original 305 and 350s of the period.

1FASTZ · 11-24-2014, 09:47 AM

Subscribed to this thread since I'd like to put an LS3 in my 69 Camaro...

Taco Time · 11-24-2014, 09:50 AM

I can't really add anything productive to your thread here, but do you mind me asking what you're planning on paying for the engine? I ask because I'm selling mine out of my '14 SS. 4k miles on it and it's never been in a wreck and has zero damage.
Either way, good luck with your project!

marsmann · 11-24-2014, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco Time

I can't really add anything productive to your thread here, but do you mind me asking what you're planning on paying for the engine? I ask because I'm selling mine out of my '14 SS. 4k miles on it and it's never been in a wreck and has zero damage.
Either way, good luck with your project!

Good question - nothing concrete yet. I got this opportunity from a friend of mine who works over at a salvage yard. So I probably have a slight advantage and an opportunity to get it cheaper than they probably go for. I've seen prices go for $7k plus but I'm looking for $5k with engine/trans/possible wiring and ecu, etc. I'm trying for $4k to be honest but at 5k I think that would be a very fair deal. I don't think they will give it to me for less than 5k but once it's official I will let you know what I pay for it.

402 · 11-24-2014, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marsmann

Thanks for the info, 402. Obviously efi is far more efficient but maybe something in between, like a tbi instead of a carb would work. I haven't done much research yet on how to possibly get it going on an older car but I do like the idea of eliminating all non-essential sensors and just running it on one main default setting.

even a 'degraded' ls3 on carb or tbi would be leaps and bounds compared to the original 305 and 350s of the period.

Lol absolutely.
Keeping efI will probably be the easiest. Best way to learn is Google lsx swap, tons and tons of people out there doing it. Even a thread about a lsx swap into a mustang should help since you are still using a gm computer but integrating stuff like the ignition key into the vehicle.

If I get on a computer today, I will type some stuff out longer. Finger tapping on a phone is painful with long winded posts... lol

Taco Time · 11-24-2014, 10:12 AM

That would be a good price with the trans and ECU. (I don't know what those run, but I'm sure they aren't cheap.) My engine (long block)is $3500 plus shipping. At least you now have another option to compare with.

Post the finished product when you're done with the car.

402 · 11-24-2014, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco Time

That would be a good price with the trans and ECU. (I don't know what those run, but I'm sure they aren't cheap.) My engine (long block)is $3500 plus shipping. At least you now have another option to compare with.

Post the finished product when you're done with the car.

I have a ls3 long block going up for sale pretty soon and will be set at that 3500 to 4 range. Fwiw

marsmann · 11-25-2014, 08:10 AM

Morning bump.

I'm still looking and doing some research. I'm slowly gathering up information. I was hopeful to see if anyone here had some knowledge or worked on installing an LS3 in something other than a Camaro, preferably old school cars. If not, that is cool. Maybe I will figure it all out and document it for folks online but that will take a little while as the project hasn't even officially started.

So far, here is some info I have to retrofit this engine into a 69 chevelle:

* Custom motor mounts or use adapter plates
* Will need complete wiring harness or Custom Wiring Harness (poss Speartech)
* Original computer modules but I will probably get aftermarket ECUs
* Oil pan looks like it will need replacing with a custom pan. A Milodon Oil Pan, Pickup Tube, and Remote filter kit seem like they will work. Because the crossmember, inner tie rods, and center link are closer to the oil pan on the early cars like the 69 chevelle, finding an oil pan will be tricky
* Depending on space/clearance custom brackets for A/C and belt accessories may be needed.
* Kooks LSx Chevelle Retrofit Headers appear to be a good fit
* Install Drive-by-Wire Throttle System. Whether electric or cable throttle control is desired (I will probably go wire) you will need to retrofit a drive-by-wire system

A note on the computer modules -- I plan to keep the factory fuel injectors, etc. and just disable unnecessary sensors, etc. along the way. Using the factory wiring is an option but chasing down sensor ghosts and bum CEL codes could turn into a frustrating experience. Alternatively, there are several aftermarket ECUs designed for retrofits that already come with a wiring harness that plugs into the factory engine sensors and connects to the original fuel injectors. Most control the ignition spark as well. Right now I am looking at a Holley HP system that is fully tunable just using your own laptop.

In the meantime if anyone has any leads, tips, etc. that would be great. Thanks!

402 · 11-25-2014, 09:39 AM

If you are getting rid of the ETC or DBW pick up a megasquirt. Something like a ms3-pro. Some of the most feature rice ecus out there and easY on the pocket book.

If ms3-pro would release control for the DBW throttle bodies, there would be one in my car.

Taco Time · 11-25-2014, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marsmann

Morning bump.

I'm still looking and doing some research. I'm slowly gathering up information. I was hopeful to see if anyone here had some knowledge or worked on installing an LS3 in something other than a Camaro, preferably old school cars. If not, that is cool. Maybe I will figure it all out and document it for folks online but that will take a little while as the project hasn't even officially started.

So far, here is some info I have to retrofit this engine into a 69 chevelle:

* Custom motor mounts or use adapter plates
* Will need complete wiring harness or Custom Wiring Harness (poss Speartech)
* Original computer modules but I will probably get aftermarket ECUs
* Oil pan looks like it will need replacing with a custom pan. A Milodon Oil Pan, Pickup Tube, and Remote filter kit seem like they will work. Because the crossmember, inner tie rods, and center link are closer to the oil pan on the early cars like the 69 chevelle, finding an oil pan will be tricky
* Depending on space/clearance custom brackets for A/C and belt accessories may be needed.
* Kooks LSx Chevelle Retrofit Headers appear to be a good fit
* Install Drive-by-Wire Throttle System. Whether electric or cable throttle control is desired (I will probably go wire) you will need to retrofit a drive-by-wire system

A note on the computer modules -- I plan to keep the factory fuel injectors, etc. and just disable unnecessary sensors, etc. along the way. Using the factory wiring is an option but chasing down sensor ghosts and bum CEL codes could turn into a frustrating experience. Alternatively, there are several aftermarket ECUs designed for retrofits that already come with a wiring harness that plugs into the factory engine sensors and connects to the original fuel injectors. Most control the ignition spark as well. Right now I am looking at a Holley HP system that is fully tunable just using your own laptop.

In the meantime if anyone has any leads, tips, etc. that would be great. Thanks!

Regarding the oil pans, drive by wire, and general installation of LS3s in older vehicles you may want to contact Mast Motersports. The sell crate LS3 for this application. They may have some info that'll help you out.

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/

marsmann · 11-25-2014, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco Time

Regarding the oil pans, drive by wire, and general installation of LS3s in older vehicles you may want to contact Mast Motersports. The sell crate LS3 for this application. They may have some info that'll help you out.

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/

Excellent! Thanks Mate! There are a lot of vendors out there but I never know who to trust. I will bookmark mastmotorsports.com.

Mark@PCMofNC · 11-25-2014, 01:44 PM

If you pull the engine/trans out of the donor car, grab the throttle pedal assembly as well. Getting the car to run with the factory fuel injection system will be fairly straight foward, but you will have the typical hurdles to jump as with any engine swap. (Mounts, fuel system, accessory drives, gauges, etc...). The factory ECMs are plenty tunable for most applications using HPTuners. In my opinion, an aftermarket/stand-alone setup adds unnecessary cost/complication.

We offer harness modifications for swap vehicles. You could send us the computers and harness and we put a basic start up tune in the computer (disable the security and remove the appropriate codes) and cut down the harness to delete the unnecessary stuff and add a small fuse block and 3 wire hookup to make the engine harness stand-alone. Feel free to give us a call, or email sales@pcmofnc.com for more info.

11-24-2014, 09:14 AM	#1
marsmann Drives: 2012 2SS/RS Vert M6 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: South East, PA Posts: 117	LS3 minimum requirements? Hi all. Did a search, was not able to find a hit on what I was looking for. I have a '12 SS vert that I'm happy with and it is stock. My background is primarily with pre 90 cars, carburetion, basic fuel injection, etc. I only know the basics when it comes to late model cars and advanced engine management systems, etc. So my question is -- what is the bare minimum I need to run an LS3 motor? I have an opportunity to get an LS3 and trans from an accident damaged Camaro and thought about pulling the drivetrain to install in a 60's chevy. I know many have done swaps, and I know there are ls1 crate kits you can buy but if I wanted to install this motor -- I assume I need all of its computer modules (engine/trans) to go with it but is there anything else I am missing? I've read horror stories about swaps with gauge clusters not working, engines not turning over requiring !@#$ programming, etc. I just want to drop this in, give it 12v and essentially run. So if anyone know what I would need at a minimum that would be great. Any advice/input appreciated. thanks!

11-24-2014, 09:50 AM	#5
Taco Time Drives: 2014 1SS Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Angleton, TX Posts: 1,339 View My Garage	I can't really add anything productive to your thread here, but do you mind me asking what you're planning on paying for the engine? I ask because I'm selling mine out of my '14 SS. 4k miles on it and it's never been in a wreck and has zero damage. Either way, good luck with your project! __________________ Taco's 2014 SS Mods: 417 Stroker \| CAI \| Bo's PTB \| Kooks LTs \| Flowmaster Outlaw Catback \| Night Fury Cam \| Powerbond UDP \| Apex Catch Can \|PRC Ported Heads \|FAST 102 Intake \|Suspension Crap\| Built by J-Rod.

11-24-2014, 10:12 AM	#8
Taco Time Drives: 2014 1SS Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Angleton, TX Posts: 1,339 View My Garage	That would be a good price with the trans and ECU. (I don't know what those run, but I'm sure they aren't cheap.) My engine (long block)is $3500 plus shipping. At least you now have another option to compare with. Post the finished product when you're done with the car. __________________ Taco's 2014 SS Mods: 417 Stroker \| CAI \| Bo's PTB \| Kooks LTs \| Flowmaster Outlaw Catback \| Night Fury Cam \| Powerbond UDP \| Apex Catch Can \|PRC Ported Heads \|FAST 102 Intake \|Suspension Crap\| Built by J-Rod.

11-24-2014, 09:33 AM	#2
402 Drives: Camaro Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: NEB Posts: 242	If you want to stay efi, grab a harness and a ecu that us from a ls3 car. Yes, if will need to be "tuned" from a shop with something like hptuners or efi live. But I would recommend that anyway. Couple things need to be turn off for it to run. Little extra wiring but nothing a 1000 threads already cover. Another option is switching it to a carb. I am not fond of carbs but it does work. There are kits out there that supply the carb and the ignitin controller to still use the factory ignition coils. Just slap it own, a little wiring and start.

11-24-2014, 09:43 AM	#3
marsmann Drives: 2012 2SS/RS Vert M6 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: South East, PA Posts: 117	Thanks for the info, 402. Obviously efi is far more efficient but maybe something in between, like a tbi instead of a carb would work. I haven't done much research yet on how to possibly get it going on an older car but I do like the idea of eliminating all non-essential sensors and just running it on one main default setting. even a 'degraded' ls3 on carb or tbi would be leaps and bounds compared to the original 305 and 350s of the period.

11-24-2014, 09:47 AM	#4
1FASTZ Drives: 1969 Z/28 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 131	Subscribed to this thread since I'd like to put an LS3 in my 69 Camaro...

11-25-2014, 08:10 AM	#10
marsmann Drives: 2012 2SS/RS Vert M6 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: South East, PA Posts: 117	Morning bump. I'm still looking and doing some research. I'm slowly gathering up information. I was hopeful to see if anyone here had some knowledge or worked on installing an LS3 in something other than a Camaro, preferably old school cars. If not, that is cool. Maybe I will figure it all out and document it for folks online but that will take a little while as the project hasn't even officially started. So far, here is some info I have to retrofit this engine into a 69 chevelle: * Custom motor mounts or use adapter plates * Will need complete wiring harness or Custom Wiring Harness (poss Speartech) * Original computer modules but I will probably get aftermarket ECUs * Oil pan looks like it will need replacing with a custom pan. A Milodon Oil Pan, Pickup Tube, and Remote filter kit seem like they will work. Because the crossmember, inner tie rods, and center link are closer to the oil pan on the early cars like the 69 chevelle, finding an oil pan will be tricky * Depending on space/clearance custom brackets for A/C and belt accessories may be needed. * Kooks LSx Chevelle Retrofit Headers appear to be a good fit * Install Drive-by-Wire Throttle System. Whether electric or cable throttle control is desired (I will probably go wire) you will need to retrofit a drive-by-wire system A note on the computer modules -- I plan to keep the factory fuel injectors, etc. and just disable unnecessary sensors, etc. along the way. Using the factory wiring is an option but chasing down sensor ghosts and bum CEL codes could turn into a frustrating experience. Alternatively, there are several aftermarket ECUs designed for retrofits that already come with a wiring harness that plugs into the factory engine sensors and connects to the original fuel injectors. Most control the ignition spark as well. Right now I am looking at a Holley HP system that is fully tunable just using your own laptop. In the meantime if anyone has any leads, tips, etc. that would be great. Thanks!

11-25-2014, 09:39 AM	#11
402 Drives: Camaro Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: NEB Posts: 242	If you are getting rid of the ETC or DBW pick up a megasquirt. Something like a ms3-pro. Some of the most feature rice ecus out there and easY on the pocket book. If ms3-pro would release control for the DBW throttle bodies, there would be one in my car.

11-25-2014, 01:44 PM	#14
Mark@PCMofNC Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Mooresville, NC Posts: 141	If you pull the engine/trans out of the donor car, grab the throttle pedal assembly as well. Getting the car to run with the factory fuel injection system will be fairly straight foward, but you will have the typical hurdles to jump as with any engine swap. (Mounts, fuel system, accessory drives, gauges, etc...). The factory ECMs are plenty tunable for most applications using HPTuners. In my opinion, an aftermarket/stand-alone setup adds unnecessary cost/complication. We offer harness modifications for swap vehicles. You could send us the computers and harness and we put a basic start up tune in the computer (disable the security and remove the appropriate codes) and cut down the harness to delete the unnecessary stuff and add a small fuse block and 3 wire hookup to make the engine harness stand-alone. Feel free to give us a call, or email sales@pcmofnc.com for more info.