Keeping up with an 370z on my v6

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

Can't compare boost numbers across platforms. It is quantity of air and fuel that make power. Different turbos flow different mounts of air for a given amount of boost. So does the piping, intercooler, heads, etc...

Yes of course you can compare them. If you throw numbers out the, then they can be compared to other numbers. Boost is what is making the power. The fact is that an engine with boost will make X amount of power. A more efficient engine will make more power with less boost. At some point tho an engine will reach it's limit as to efficiency and more boost will be needed. So you can compare how much boost it would take an engine of smaller size to make the same amount of power as an engine of a larger size. And given similar boost and engine efficiency (head flow, cam specs, etc) a larger engine will always make more power than a smaller engine with the same amount of boost. Those Evo guys making 500 hp in their engines, they need 15 lbs of boost. And that's with modded cars. LS3 engines can make close to 600 hp with less than half that with an otherwise bone stock car. Give a Viper the same boost as an LS3 and it will make even more power (obviously).

[bowtieguyvegas]

Originally Posted by Deki

Same thing that I'm getting at with this statement:

-I was on my high school soccer team and we beat one of our rivals.


same relevance.

oh ya we bet you to the soccor field in our g35 mt6 or 7 or whatever

[chicagobulls]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yes of course you can compare them. If you throw numbers out the, then they can be compared to other numbers. Boost is what is making the power. The fact is that an engine with boost will make X amount of power. A more efficient engine will make more power with less boost. At some point tho an engine will reach it's limit as to efficiency and more boost will be needed. So you can compare how much boost it would take an engine of smaller size to make the same amount of power as an engine of a larger size. And given similar boost and engine efficiency (head flow, cam specs, etc) a larger engine will always make more power than a smaller engine with the same amount of boost. Those Evo guys making 500 hp in their engines, they need 15 lbs of boost. And that's with modded cars. LS3 engines can make close to 600 hp with less than half that with an otherwise bone stock car. Give a Viper the same boost as an LS3 and it will make even more power (obviously).

Well the v6 is only 3.6 liters while the SS is 6.2. Lol

A v6 3.6 with 20 psi boost is more efficient than a 6.2 v8 with 10 psi boost IMO.

Which car is more efficient?

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yes of course you can compare them. If you throw numbers out the, then they can be compared to other numbers. Boost is what is making the power. The fact is that an engine with boost will make X amount of power. A more efficient engine will make more power with less boost. At some point tho an engine will reach it's limit as to efficiency and more boost will be needed. So you can compare how much boost it would take an engine of smaller size to make the same amount of power as an engine of a larger size. And given similar boost and engine efficiency (head flow, cam specs, etc) a larger engine will always make more power than a smaller engine with the same amount of boost. Those Evo guys making 500 hp in their engines, they need 15 lbs of boost. And that's with modded cars. LS3 engines can make close to 600 hp with less than half that with an otherwise bone stock car. Give a Viper the same boost as an LS3 and it will make even more power (obviously).

You are ignoring that an LS3 flows more air before it gets boosted. Once both cars are boosted, adding the same amount of air and fuel will result is a similar amount of HP gain. But is the amount of air flowing, not the boost, that is making the difference. The turbo I have is the smallest in the EFR line. It maxes out at 23 psi. I can go up one step in turbo size and make more power but that turbo still maxes out at 23 psi. Same boost, more power. What's the difference? The larger turbo flows more air for given boost.

If a LS3 motor was equipped with two of my turbos I very seriously doubt it would make any more power than mine does. It would probably make less because it would have to run richer to handle the higher cylinder temps. They have to run a pretty big turbo to make 600 HP on just 9-10 psi.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by chicagobulls

Well the v6 is only 3.6 liters while the SS is 6.2. Lol

A v6 3.6 with 20 psi boost is more efficient than a 6.2 v8 with 10 psi boost IMO.

Which car is more efficient?

How do you figure that? And don't dare say hp per cubic inches. If a 3.6 at 20 lbs of boost makes the same hp as a V8 with half the boost then obviously the V8 engine is more efficient. Because it is using less positive pressure but making the same hp. I don't think you quite understand the concept of efficient hp.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

How do you figure that? And don't dare say hp per cubic inches. If a 3.6 at 20 lbs of boost makes the same hp as a V8 with half the boost then obviously the V8 engine is more efficient. Because it is using less positive pressure but making the same hp. I don't think you quite understand the concept of efficient hp.

You seem to be unfamiliar with forced induction and the concepts of volumetric effeciency and effective displacement.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

You are ignoring that an LS3 flows more air before it gets boosted. Once both cars are boosted, adding the same amount of air and fuel will result is a similar amount of HP gain. But is the amount of air flowing, not the boost, that is making the difference. The turbo I have is the smallest in the EFR line. It maxes out at 23 psi. I can go up one step in turbo size and make more power but that turbo still maxes out at 23 psi. Same boost, more power. What's the difference? The larger turbo flows more air for given boost.

If a LS3 motor was equipped with two of my turbos I very seriously doubt it would make any more power than mine does. It would probably make less because it would have to run richer to handle the higher cylinder temps. They have to run a pretty big turbo to make 600 HP on just 9-10 psi.

Ok I think I see your point. Yes it is about how much air is moved into and out of an engine. But that amount of air is moving because of positive pressure. Without the boost, that engine would never flow that amount of air. So yes, bigger turbos will make more hp for the same amount of boost because it will move more air. And that is the same thing as a bigger engine making more power with the same amount of boost. Because the engine can flow more air. So your car with X turbo will make X hp. Increase the turbo size and you can make the same hp with less boost or you can make more hp with the same boost. An LS3 will do the same given properly sized turbos. Your two turbos would likely be too small for a 6.2 to be efficient. And heat would be a major issue. And on the other hand, two turbos sized for a 6.2 would not be an efficient set-up for your engine because they are too big. But give both engines properly sized turbos and the 6.2 will make more with less boost. I think we are basically saying the same thing in different ways.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

You seem to be unfamiliar with forced induction and the concepts of volumetric effeciency and effective displacement.

No I know what I'm talking about. But if you're soo confident, how about you explain yourself without quoting an article or book or something from a Google search. Because if you think an engine making 600 hp at 20 lbs of boost is more efficient than an engine making 600 hp at 10 lbs of boost...then you are very wrong.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok I think I see your point. Yes it is about how much air is moved into and out of an engine. But that amount of air is moving because of positive pressure. Without the boost, that engine would never flow that amount of air. So yes, bigger turbos will make more hp for the same amount of boost because it will move more air. And that is the same thing as a bigger engine making more power with the same amount of boost. Because the engine can flow more air. So your car with X turbo will make X hp. Increase the turbo size and you can make the same hp with less boost or you can make more hp with the same boost. An LS3 will do the same given properly sized turbos. Your two turbos would likely be too small for a 6.2 to be efficient. And heat would be a major issue. And on the other hand, two turbos sized for a 6.2 would not be an efficient set-up for your engine because they are too big. But give both engines properly sized turbos and the 6.2 will make more with less boost. I think we are basically saying the same thing in different ways.

Okay, but the limit is turbo size is really a limit on the exhaust gasses. I could run the same turbo size as the 6.2L and probably make the same peak power (up to the point where I can't turn them over), but low-end power would be nothing. Boost only lets you push more air into the motor than it can "draw" naturally. After that is is simply a mater of volume. Two motors with the same effective displacement will make similar power. NA displacement is not important from that point until you go so big on the turbos that the small engine can't spool the turbo anymore.

Given the same volume of air going into a port injection engine and a direct inject engine, the DI engie will make more power because it can run leaner without detonation. Watch what kind of power the LT1 makes when people start going FI on them. I wouldn't be suprised if they make over 80 HP/eL and 190+ HP/L.

[BlaqWhole]

Ok I get what you're saying (you can disregard my previous post BTW). We are on the same page. You could make the same power if you could move the same volume of air. And that is what displacement, boost, higher flowing heads, compression, etc is all about...moving a larger volume of air.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok I get what you're saying (you can disregard my previous post BTW). We are on the same page. You could make the same power if you could move the same volume of air. And that is what displacement, boost, higher flowing heads, compression, etc is all about...moving a larger volume of air.

Yeap, we are on the same page.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by bluebeastsrt

You keep talking about boost pressure but it's the amount of air a turbo can supply which is more important than how much pressure it'll make. For example. I had a SRT-4 that came stock with a Tdo4 turbo. It was capable of moving 32 pounds of air per minute MAX in stock configuration. It didn't matter if it was at 18 PSI or 20 PSI. It was only going to flow 32 PPM. because of compressor wheel size, turbine wheel size, etc. I then up graded to a Tdo5 that was capable of flowing 38 pounds per minute of air. The TDo4 turbo was capable of 300whp max on the 2.4 liter SRT-4 motor with supporting mods. The Tdo5 was capable of 400whp. Both turbos were capable of making 20 pounds of boost. Think about this. Would you rather have the tiny turbo off a Mini Cooper making 20 pounds of boost or a much larger turbo only making 10 PSI but flowing twice as much air?

Look at his posts after that and I think you will see the point he was trying to make.

[KMPrenger]

Yep....its all about the amount of air moved, and not the boost.

Hell...with cam phasing on the V6 you can change that and cause an increase of boost pressure (b/c of less air getting in) and make less power.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by 08-G35s/6MT

I beat a Camaro ss on a highway in venezuala, lol autobots crap all over it and flashing blue lights in the grille.

I recorded a quick video after

So that video is of you drving an older Camaro Z28, and you just beat another Camaro before that video.

Thanks for sharing!!