Your Recipe for Turning a 1LE Into a Z/28 Performer

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by BullF-16

I added a link to Justice Petes writeup from my last visit down to Pedders HQ.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300581

The common SS and the 1LE can be upgraded close to the Z28 imho for quite a bit of coin. Why is this thread a good read? Because based on the numbers GM plans to crank out.........it will be a very, very difficult car to obtain. Not as bad as the COPO but......still difficult.

I personally dont care about the value of a 2014 original Z28 40 years from now with 5 miles on it. I built my car to drive the hell out of. Its still a work in progress and have yet to get it out to the road course but the time is fast approaching.

Its a ton of fun on the back roads of north Texas. And the drives down to Kerrville/Fredericksberg (Pedders HQ) was also quite a rush.

[j-rho]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Yes. And 10/10ths drivers will notice that it opens up (slips) on track and you end up with a peg leg or one wheel peel instead of putting the power to the ground.

Interesting, so the 1LE as delivered doesn't have sufficient lockup? I'd heard of similar problems in the C6 Grandsport, whereas the Z06 (which used essenially the same type of diff, just different setup) didn't seem to ever have that problem. Curious because I am considering a 1LE to autocross with, which tends to work the diff harder than road course activity.

Ironically a torsen style diff like the Quaife is more generally prescribed for a car that will see street and track duty. It doesn't complain in tight u-turns, they don't really wear out, and provide consistent performance over their lifespan. However they still require a minimum amount of grip/resistance on the inboard driven tire to function, delivering a maximum torque bias usually around 4:1 - and once your inside tire starts to slip, its resistance goes down, increasing inside wheelspin. Same thing can happen if the inside rear is unloaded over a curb or something.

Clutch type diffs like an OS Giken on the other hand, tend to offer more tune-ability, and are prescribed for the more hardcore pure-track cars, because they offer a lot of potential adjustment for preload and lock-up under accel and decel. Their torque distribution is based on driveshaft input torque vs. wheel counter-torque, so they still work if the inside rear gets unloaded. Problem is they can produce more heat, they'll be awkward in tight turns if you have a lot of preload, and the clutches wear out, gradually changing the behavior of the diff between its rebuilds.

I suppose with PTM and all the electronic trickery, the Z28 could just be engineered to apply to the brakes to the inside wheel when the diff starts to let it spin up... some e-diff functionality to complement the helical.

Oh, to be somewhat on topic...a 1SS 1LE with I/H/E and tune, light battery, AC and radio removed, rear seats pulled and lightweight fronts, spring rates to achieve 2.25hz front and 2hz rear ride frequencies with a good double-adjustable race damper valved to match, should be about on par. Same wheels/tires of course. I might be worried a bit about oil control in the LS3 but you could Accusump it somewhat inexpensively for some insurance...if you don't ever plan to run full R-compound tires or slicks, can probably get by without the dry sump.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by BullF-16

I added a link to Justice Petes writeup from my last visit down to Pedders HQ.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300581

The common SS and the 1LE can be upgraded close to the Z28 imho for quite a bit of coin. Why is this thread a good read? Because based on the numbers GM plans to crank out.........it will be a very, very difficult car to obtain. Not as bad as the COPO but......still difficult.

I personally dont care about the value of a 2014 original Z28 40 years from now with 5 miles on it. I built my car to drive the hell out of. Its still a work in progress and have yet to get it out to the road course but the time is fast approaching.

Its a ton of fun on the back roads of north Texas. And the drives down to Kerrville/Fredericksberg (Pedders HQ) was also quite a rush.

...well said. Although the COPO will be a more limited production with a factory stock NHRA drag class operation and no VIN, it will be a very limited piece for a small target market. Striclty a drag car. It will be polar opposite for the Z/28 in the allocation and desirability. There is a specific function differential between the two. You can drive a Z/28 on the street, and road race it. Can't drag race a COPO on the street, without legal issues..

[Fraxum]

This thread is an interesting read. I think it would be easy to build a Camaro from an SS or 1LE with aftermarket/factory parts that would easily match or beat a stock Z/28 if you spend enough $$.

Even more interesting as the OP stated, how could you do it with spending the least amount of $$. I think this will be much clearer once we see production Z/28s running against modified 1LEs and SSes.

Of course many of those Z/28s will be modded. It may not be a fair fight.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

I really do hope the Z/28 posers out there are kept to a minimum. With what the Z/28 offers, no 1LE can perform like a Z/28, idc what you do to it.

[Mikes SS]

But the best part of it all is the 1LE starting point. Just needs a little more motor and better brakes. I believe in the other thread way back that was all that we were asking for and then GM decided to add a bunch of other "go fast goodies" and limit production so I now will have to build "my Z/28" because there will be no other way I will be able to get my hands on one. I have changed out my specs a little though and I would start with the 1LE, get the Z's backseat and not remove it completely, Recaro Seats, Carbon fiber fenders and doors to balance out the weight distribution, Z/28 wheels, DSS driveshaft, and the new 6.2L LT1 engine over the LS7.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

But the best part of it all is the 1LE starting point. Just needs a little more motor and better brakes. I believe in the other thread way back that was all that we were asking for and then GM decided to add a bunch of other "go fast goodies" and limit production so I now will have to build "my Z/28" because there will be no other way I will be able to get my hands on one. I have changed out my specs a little though and I would start with the 1LE, get the Z's backseat and not remove it completely, Recaro Seats, Carbon fiber fenders and doors to balance out the weight distribution, Z/28 wheels, DSS driveshaft, and the new 6.2L LT1 engine over the LS7.

1LE is the starting point and ending point.

[snickerdoodle]

Honestly all you need is a 315 square set up, coilovers and sway bars, brakes and a blower.

[Col. Brain]

Originally Posted by snickerdoodle

Honestly all you need is a 315 square set up, coilovers and sway bars, brakes and a blower.

you dont even need a blower if you are running up against stock LS7 performance

plenty of LS3s making 475+whp n/a. LS7s make about 440-450

[Fraxum]

I think you have to separate the Z/28 badge and the hype from actual real world performance. This thread is more about the latter.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I think you have to separate the Z/28 badge and the hype from actual real world performance. This thread is more about the latter.

Correct! It's not making an actual Z/28, it's creating something that's able to perform "like" one. Between the price (with mark up) and availability, how well can we do with the Camaro platform in making a car that is competitive? And can it be done for less? If so for how much?

[jksynergy]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Correct! It's not making an actual Z/28, it's creating something that's able to perform "like" one. Between the price (with mark up) and availability, how well can we do with the Camaro platform in making a car that is competitive? And can it be done for less? If so for how much?

I think you said it perfect. Not making the Z, but performing as close to possible track wise for as little coin as possible.

[BullF-16]

Originally Posted by jksynergy

I think you said it perfect. Not making the Z, but performing as close to possible track wise for as little coin as possible.

Agreed Its nice to surprise the hell out of the Z06s, ZR1s and Z28s on the road course and also swap shoes and run sub 10sec 1320s. Not cheap though.

[Number 3]

Well for the sake of the thread, any "add a SC" is disqualified, IMO. Now you are trying to duplicate a ZL1.

I believe you can get an LS3 to be close to an LS7. You could simply go buy an LS7 crate motor for $20,000 too. But I think if you are willing to break the engine open and go cam, headers and a tune you'd be in the ball park.

I think you can match the chassis with Pedders. But I think even Pete would say it would be tough to beat the Z/28. Pete?

The biggest difference, and you can add it for $$$, are the CC brakes. You can get close with the CTS-V or ZL1 6 pots but without the CC, you are only going to come up short.

So I think you can get a car that performs allllmost like a Z/28, but no more.

But I'm sure there will some giving it the old college try and I'd sure like to see those builds.