09-16-2018, 08:22 PM | #15 |
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Drives: C7 Z06 manual, 18 Zl1 manual, etc Join Date: Dec 2013
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Because the 2018 5.0 A10 outperforms the current gen 6 ss and is considerably less expensive and cheap to mod.
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09-16-2018, 10:03 PM | #16 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
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I would also question the mod price. The 5.0 has 4 cams to buy instead of one. 32 valve springs and followers instead of 16. Blowers, headers, exhaust systems are all priced similar too. Again, hope I’m not coming across combative. It’s just that everything I read prior to my purchase (and test driving both before my purchase!) tells me differently.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
Last edited by Joshinator99; 09-16-2018 at 10:38 PM. |
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09-16-2018, 10:33 PM | #17 |
Drives: CGM 2LT/RS M6 Join Date: Jul 2009
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I thought GM hit a homerun with the 6th Gen. Talk about beating the Mustang and Challenger in almost all performance categories. They put out a darn good product. The only thing the 5th Gen had on it was a better ride. The new frame is better tuned for handling. One problem I saw was no advertising (don't see many Vette commercials either.) Another is not enough body change. I suppose they thought they had a winner in the 5th Gen and were not going to mess with the body much. This seems to have backfired on them. I personally like the looks of the 6th Gen.
I really don't think GM cares if they outsell the Mustang. They could have made a cheap version of the SS but decided to make the car with a lot of features stock. I love that you don't get nickel and dimed to death just to have a car that performs as it should. But America doesn't share my opinion. Looks like it must fall through the entire line up with the Turbo 4 and V6. I think GM makes it's real living selling trucks and SUV's of all sizes. Those they advertise like mad. I love my Silverado (glad I don't have the 8 speed auto). So really, until they change their sales tactics we will lack in sales. |
09-16-2018, 11:04 PM | #18 |
Drives: 2013 Camaro SS Join Date: Oct 2016
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09-17-2018, 12:41 AM | #19 |
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The A10 2018 5.0 definitely is a slightly faster car bone stock vs the 6g either A8 or manual. I'm not talking a manual 5.0 or 2017 bc the ss definitely kicks it's rear end. The 18 direct injection A10 IS the better performer of the 2 (1/4 mile and roll). As for mods all you need is a tune, e85 flex fuel kit, headers, exhaust, cai, and jlt intake and you are in the neighborhood of a heads cam ss. You gain virtually nothing doing cams on a 5.0. I'm just stating facts, look at my current garage I'm not a Ford nut hugger by any means.
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09-17-2018, 08:37 AM | #20 |
Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
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First off, let me say that I love my 2016 SS Camaro. Its an amazing performance car, and a big jump better in all things performance over the 5th gen (which I also owned). Definitely the best all around performance pony car today.
2nd, I believe Chevy would of course love to outsell Mustang, but they'd rather make profit, so they chose price them higher to make a higher profit per vehicle than Ford. This is absolutely true as data proves it. That said, at this point the sales are probably lower than where Chevrolet would like to see them. Next, price is still a factor (you can still get yourself into a V8 Mustang cheaper than a V8 Camaro) but its less of a factor with the 2018 models. Once you throw in a few features/performance options to match the Camaro, the Mustang is just as pricey, and in some cases even more expensive than Camaro when looking at MSRP. For me, it comes down to several things (not in any order of importance): 1) Price. Said above. MSRP is irrelevant. Its what you pay at the dealer. Nobody should ever pay close to MSRP on these cars unless you're ordering some special model, but you can certainly get a V8 Mustang cheaper. If they still had an over-abundance of Camaros and were running red tag sales like at the close of the 2016 model year, I'd argue you can get a Camaro for just as cheap, but you don't see amazing deals like that as much right now. 2) Practicality. Camaro is the worst at this. Not a surprise the best sports car is also the least practical. Mustang isn't practical either, but its just a bit better in most ways the Camaro, so there's another issue. (By the way, arguing that these types of cars need to be more "family friendly" is a silly argument if you ask me, but its a real thing, so its relevant) 3) Looks. Now, I think my 2016 Camaro is BAD ASS looking. Holy crap I love the way it looks, and it gets attention too. But it was just an evolution of the 5th gen...that combined with the next point, I think hurts sales. 4) Advertising. I'm sorry nay-sayers, but GM has completely failed in advertising this car. I've seen at least three to four different Mustang commercials in the past year or two. There is a new one out right now of a young women driving an orange version and its a good commercial. She drops her child off at school (rolling through in touring mode in the school zone). Later, she comes to a stop light with some dude showing interest in her...she puts in in Sports, the exhaust gets loud and she peels off. Camaro has gotten nothing (on tv at least). They could have easily created an exciting TV ad showing off a little bad-assery all while touting its world class handling, power, and technology. Nope. I hope for the best in the 7th gen. I honestly feel like if they do end up adding back in more space, making the car a bit more practical, improving visibility and keeping price the same or better...will the car actually perform as well as the 6th gen? That my friends, is a HUGE task. Lets hope that the Alpha 2 platform can add a little size without sacrificing weight or handling.
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09-17-2018, 09:03 AM | #21 | ||
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
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On to your points 1. MSRP I agree, but at the same time disagree. Sticker Shock can be a real thing. 2. Practicality. I agree. None of these cars are ideal but when you are clearly the worst at it behind your competition that can be the difference in a sale. I have said numerous times here lately. I am an active person during the summer. I do a lot things right after leaving the office. When I had my Mustang I could keep all my stuff in my trunk and still pick up friends and their stuff. Can't do that in the Camaro. And it just sucks, I would love to consider it but I cant. 3. I agree. The 6th gen is a good looking vehicle, but IMO it's look was just an evolution of the 5th Gen which that styling has been slammed into our faces since 2006. 4. I agree, it could help. I don't think it needs a full campaign for itself, but at least feature it in some ads. |
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09-17-2018, 10:04 AM | #22 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
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Newsflash:
the mustang outsold the Camaro in the 80s and 90s too, even though it was not as good a performer; and no one in their right mind would say those mustangs were better looking than the Camaro. |
09-17-2018, 10:24 AM | #23 |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
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I think you would find plenty of people that would say the 87-93 Mustang's were better looking.
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09-17-2018, 11:00 AM | #24 | |
Drives: Tesla M3 LR-AWD [Former 1SS owner] Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Miami
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09-17-2018, 11:58 AM | #25 | |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,024
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Quote:
Perhaps the 7th gen can strike a better balance. |
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09-17-2018, 12:16 PM | #26 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
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09-17-2018, 02:04 PM | #27 |
Drives: 1999 Camaro SS M6 - SBE LS1 Join Date: Jun 2018
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Let's breakdown the numbers and look at ownership sales vs rental/fleet - here are the stats another member posted on a thread already dedicated to this dicsussion (credit - hotlap):
Retail ATP's 2018 Q1-Q2 (JDPin) Camaro: $40,814 Challenger: $38,241 (-$2,573) Mustang: $34,798 (-$6,016) Retail Sales 2018 Q1-Q2 Mustang: 29,548 Challenger: 25,783 (-3,765) Camaro: 24,809 (4,739) Total Sales 2018 Q1-Q2 Mustang 42,428 Challenger 37,367 (-5,061) Camaro 25,380 (-17,048) Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2018 Q1-Q2 Camaro 2.2% Mustang 30.4% (+28.1%) Challenger 31% (+28.8%) Compared to 2107 totals Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin) Camaro: $39,514 Challenger: $35,498 (-$4,016) Mustang: $33,792 (-$5,722) Retail Sales 2017 Camaro: 65,222 Mustang: 60,581 (-4641) Challenger: 45,821 (-19,401) Total Sales 2017 Mustang 81,866 Camaro 67,940 (-13,926) Challenger 64,537 (-17,329) Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2017 Camaro 4% Mustang 26% (+22%) Challenger 29% (+25%) Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin) Camaro: $39,514 Challenger: $35,498 (-$4,016) Mustang: $33,792 (-$5,722) Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2017 Camaro 4% Mustang 26% (+22%) Challenger 29% (+25%) With a little math, remove the rental sales from the Q1-Q2 sales figures: Mustang (-30.4%) = 29, 529 Camaro (-2.2%) = 24, 821 Challenger (-31%) = 25, 783 So yes, the Camaro is behind in sales for Q1-Q2 in 2018...but Al O's words are misleading, if GM wants to compete in sales volumes, they need to start with offering attractive rental and fleet packages as that is where the majority of the difference lies.
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09-17-2018, 02:28 PM | #28 | |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,024
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1. the numbers posted above are inaccurate, which I have no proof, I just find it odd that it was not mentioned anywhere in this article, in an article about sales and the head man himself said they want to go after lower trims and win. 2. GM is not happy with the volume despite the higher ATP. All that tells me is they sell more high trims than low trims, but the low trims are the lifeblood of the car. 3. Everything is just taken out of context in this article lol |
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