Why 5.0 are faster?

[Camaro Dude]

It dat car in da movie with Steve McQueen, circa 1968.

Alas, new one look like a Fusion.

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

.... I know when we were developing the Boss 302, we projected that less than 10% of owners would actually track them. I suspect the percentage is far less for the more pedestrian models.....

Were, as in past tense is the key word here. Like Oppenheiser said, if you want your product to go world class, and be used in the same sentence as a Skyline, Porsche, BMW, AMG, BMW, etc in a car conversation at the table, you have to get on with it.

Sure most don't track their Ferraris. But they are also not in peoples butt end of jokes, of being able to move only in a straight line, with zero braking capabilities as icing on the cake. This is what the new Camaro tried to shed. A very bad reputation on the world stage, and I'm glad to see they finally WOKE UP with the new upcoming Mustang.

Sure none of this matters with the domestic boys.
But since you claim to be a designer, of engineer for that matter, then you and I know full well, what it takes to survive in this business.

Bring back a proper retro looking 'stang, that can handle and brake wit da best of dem, and me and da boys might look at one

Now you have your work cutout, Godspeed grasshopper, best if luck on the new design.

[omgitsmikeyC]

Originally Posted by Pi kappa alpha

This isn't true at all. The Camaro was built as a reaction to the mustang and challenger. Both of which have 2008 models. The camaro does not. Obviously, Chevy is not going to release an inferior product performance wise especially after being able to see the competition. The 6.4 motor was created in 2004. It's not like Dodge was like "oh my god we need to create an engine to compete with the 6.2 in that camaro" which is how I think you're tying to spin it. The 6.4 was put in primarily for problems with the 6.1. And do you realize how long it takes to "build" a car as you put it? The 2011 models are when the playing fields changed (one year after the camaro came out). For Ford and Dodge to build and test cars in less than a year to respond to the camaro is not reasonable. They're revisions were long in development.

It seems like people here spread so much misinformation when it comes to this topic. Shaking my head.

The Camaro Concept dates back before 2006... with drawings and design dating back to 2003 when design and selection was taking place on future vehicle offerings. The "new" retro mustang was designed in 2004, and released as a 2005 model. Yes, the 6.4l was available back when, but power numbers were not risen to the level they are modernly because the Camaro came out at 426hp in production form 2009, after financial struggles delayed production release. The mustang and Challenger models did not increase performance production until well after the Camaro had been established as the top dog of low cost muscle.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by omgitsmikeyC

The Camaro Concept dates back before 2006... with drawings and design dating back to 2003 when design and selection was taking place on future vehicle offerings. The "new" retro mustang was designed in 2004, and released as a 2005 model. Yes, the 6.4l was available back when, but power numbers were not risen to the level they are modernly because the Camaro came out at 426hp in production form 2009, after financial struggles delayed production release. The mustang and Challenger models did not increase performance production until well after the Camaro had been established as the top dog of low cost muscle.

I'm trying to remember what Ford released in 2007 that was a significant increase in performance over the 'decent for 2005 but not 2010 3V 4.6'.

Anyone remember?

[supasport]

nobody plans on keeping their cars stock when they buy either one of these muscle cars so already.. this argument gets eliminated

[davidcroft]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I'm trying to remember what Ford released in 2007 that was a significant increase in performance over the 'decent for 2005 but not 2010 3V 4.6'.

Anyone remember?

The 2007 Mustang SVT SHELBY GT500.

Where's Ford's answer to the Corvette?
^ fanboy (kool-aid) question

[jdsblueray2013]

Me and my son just seen new Mustang on a Car and driver cover my son said "your joking right", that's the new Mustang, he said it looks plain, and that's coming from an 18 year old, I don't think the style is going to be popular with younger generation.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by davidcroft

The 2007 Mustang SVT SHELBY GT500.

Where's Ford's answer to the Corvette?
^ fanboy (kool-aid) question

I'm not sure if you're suggesting I'm the fanboy, or you're presenting the typical GM fanboy response just for fun...

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by omgitsmikeyC

The Camaro Concept dates back before 2006... with drawings and design dating back to 2003 when design and selection was taking place on future vehicle offerings. The "new" retro mustang was designed in 2004, and released as a 2005 model. Yes, the 6.4l was available back when, but power numbers were not risen to the level they are modernly because the Camaro came out at 426hp in production form 2009, after financial struggles delayed production release. The mustang and Challenger models did not increase performance production until well after the Camaro had been established as the top dog of low cost muscle.

Cars are developed and designed at least five years before their release date. when a new model is introduced...dies are already being specd out for the new model

[87GNX]

Originally Posted by jdsblueray2013

Me and my son just seen new Mustang on a Car and driver cover my son said "your joking right", that's the new Mustang, he said it looks plain, and that's coming from an 18 year old, I don't think the style is going to be popular with younger generation.

What did you think of it? I saw it too. It looks good in blue and that is it imo. Still not impressed with the strange proportions.

[Dr. Evil]

On the original topic.

Gearing, weight, suspension, engine options all favor the mustang for straightline speed.

Everyone looks at a camaro and thinks LS3 but it may have L99 power.
Higher drivetrain losses, more complication and more weight in an IRS rear.
Look at a manual trans for both and its gears/weight. 2nd gear in a SS is 2.07 and 2.66 or something in the GT. I mean do our cars (the SS) really need to be able to get to 150mph in 4th gear? I think its rediculous. Almost 29" tall tires on the rear too? GMAFB.

IMO, I'd throw a set of 4.30 gears in it and a 27" tall tire on it. Top 4th out at 116 to 118mph and be done with it. This last part alone would do absolute wonders for the car.

[macwest]

Originally Posted by Dr. Evil

On the original topic.

Gearing, weight, suspension, engine options all favor the mustang for straightline speed.

Everyone looks at a camaro and thinks LS3 but it may have L99 power.
Higher drivetrain losses, more complication and more weight in an IRS rear.
Look at a manual trans for both and its gears/weight. 2nd gear in a SS is 2.07 and 2.66 or something in the GT. I mean do our cars (the SS) really need to be able to get to 150mph in 4th gear? I think its rediculous. Almost 29" tall tires on the rear too? GMAFB.

IMO, I'd throw a set of 4.30 gears in it and a 27" tall tire on it. Top 4th out at 116 to 118mph and be done with it. This last part alone would do absolute wonders for the car.

Gearing kills the camaro. Add to it the loss from the frame bushings. pfadt upgrade and go with 1le rear end. Those changes make a big difference. Before my supercharger I ran Richmond 4.11 and tires are 30 series for a 26.5 height.

[Dr. Evil]

Thats it in a nutshell Mac.
The gearing and IRS. If I decide to mod this car I may go with a set of 3:91s just because of the price point but if all things were equal I'd love to have a set of 4:30s. These cars need/love gear.
I think the MT82 in the mustang uses 5th gear for its 1.0 ratio.

[MikeSVX]

Originally Posted by Pi kappa alpha

This isn't true at all. The Camaro was built as a reaction to the mustang and challenger. Both of which have 2008 models. The camaro does not. Obviously, Chevy is not going to release an inferior product performance wise especially after being able to see the competition. The 6.4 motor was created in 2004. It's not like Dodge was like "oh my god we need to create an engine to compete with the 6.2 in that camaro" which is how I think you're tying to spin it. The 6.4 was put in primarily for problems with the 6.1. And do you realize how long it takes to "build" a car as you put it? The 2011 models are when the playing fields changed (one year after the camaro came out). For Ford and Dodge to build and test cars in less than a year to respond to the camaro is not reasonable. They're revisions were long in development.

It seems like people here spread so much misinformation when it comes to this topic. Shaking my head.

Actually the 2004 Mustang took 9 months to design. Ford planned to kill the Mustang then, but the out cry from the public changed their mind. Because it was an anniversary year they wanted a redesign. There design department pulled it off in a very short time with a lot of sleepless nights. Also Ford and Dodge knew what GM had in store because the prototype for the Camaro was released in 2006. It was obvious the cars were going to be 400+ horsepower because it was know that it was getting the LS engines used in the Corvettes. The Camaro was able to hit the cost and preformance marks it did because GM used technologies they had been using in other models, they just put a new body on it. The LS engines were running in the Corvettes and Caddy CTS-Vs ant the chassis themselves were under the CTS-Vs and Pontiac G8s.

Yes, The Camaro was built to best the Dodge and Fords, but the changes to them were in response. Seriously, do you think it's really a coincidence that the Mustang GT was stuck at 300hp for all those years and then the 5.0 comes out the very next year? They had 3 years to develop a new engine to top the Camaro. Just like the GT500 getting a bump to 600 plus horsepower right after the ZL1 info was released and it had more power then the previous GT500. It's just the way the game is played. Even Dodge plays the horsepower game, they are just confused about what to compete with. They build the SRT to out power the SS and the 5.0, but then put the price in the range of the ZL1 and GT500.

As far as the consumers concerned, it doesn't matter what came first, the chicken or the egg. We're all having a great Easter full of power.