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Old 01-31-2010, 12:22 AM   #43
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I think the COPO process that produced the 427 Camaro's in 1969 has been a bit simplified here. I own a 69 COPO with 7600 original miles. I don't know everything about them but I know a little. There are no known documented Van Nuys built COPO Camaro's in 1969 . All the documented cars are from the Norwood , Ohio plant and most of those cars were ordered by dealers in Ohio , and other parts of the mid-west . Most dealers had no idea you could order a COPO camaro. I have never seen an advertisement for a COPO in a 1968 or 1969 magazine. The 427 COPO Camaro's flew under the radar.No one knows how many were built but we know there were roughly 800 manual coded engines built and 200 auto's.... and some of those had to be replacement engines so we are talking less than 1000 cars total.
We can talk about it now because everyone knows about them . But back in 69 even most Camaro guys didn't. and in 1969 there were so many options for a Camaro it was unheard of! Engine options .. straight 6 , 327 , 307 , 350 , 302 , 396 ... and some of the displacements also had multiple HP ratings like the 396 at 325,350 and 375 HP and an aluminum head option. Over the counter Cross Rams for the 302 ...Totally different time......

I think it would be easy for GM to produce additional engine options . I just don't think their partners... the US government is interested. But you never know.... maybe some racing success will help , just like it did in the old days
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:39 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by 68vert View Post
If GM can make a limited run, although expensive ZR-1 Corvette, and still make money on it, they could do the same on a different vehicle. But all sorts of interesting questions arise about the balance of performance/price points across their models lines.
That's one of the reasons the ZR1 is $110,000. It just sounds easy.....it really isn't. In fact it is probably easier for the Corvette because it is a unique assembly process and the engines are hand built for the most part. LS3 GS, LS7 and LS9 all built in Wixom.

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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
Guys, you're all bringing up valid points, but you've missed the biggest point of them all. This is just a suggestion. There are lots of kinks to work out, but wouldn't you want the option of a different powerplant? Everyone is complaining about the lack of Z28, but some of those same members enter this thread criticizing an idea that could provide the same options. It's as if you want a badge more than you want a fast car. If you want the badge so badly, here you go.

Now, a few of you have argued that this is impossible for a variety of reasons. There are simple solutions for most of these problems, so I will itemize them.

Safety
This car would have to be safe. In order to do that GM would do crash testing to verify that it met safety standards. That wasn't so hard. Let's move on.

Emissions
The technicality requires that this be a car different from the Camaro. In essence, GM must rebadge it as something else in order to minimize the cost of production. GM does own a variety of names known for performance that would suffice for such a product that would see substantially lower production than the Camaro. What was the name of that storied brand that GM killed with a history of performance vehicles? Make the car a special order with limited production available at select GM dealers.

Production
This section is negotiable. I just thought this was a good idea. Production would be limited to a low enough number that the EPA and other applicable agencies would not emissions test it. GM builds a car on the assembly line with all the other cars. GM does not install the engine or the transmission. GM ships the car, engine, and transmission to a dealer. The dealer installs the custom parts. Continue this story in the next section.

Sales
The dealer has just paid a bunch of labor in the process of putting together the car. Now, the dealer sells the car at a high enough price to pay for that and get a profit. Why would I suggest this? Dealers need an incentive to order the car. For this reason, these custom products would have to be worthy of markups. If we don't give dealers an incentive to order this, no one would have one, and that would suck.

Matching Numbers
There's been such a negative response to this idea that you can forget I mentioned it.
Had to read the whole thread for one place that touched all the hard spots.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevyThunder View Post
I think the COPO process that produced the 427 Camaro's in 1969 has been a bit simplified here. I own a 69 COPO with 7600 original miles. I don't know everything about them but I know a little. There are no known documented Van Nuys built COPO Camaro's in 1969 . All the documented cars are from the Norwood , Ohio plant and most of those cars were ordered by dealers in Ohio , and other parts of the mid-west . Most dealers had no idea you could order a COPO camaro. I have never seen an advertisement for a COPO in a 1968 or 1969 magazine. The 427 COPO Camaro's flew under the radar.No one knows how many were built but we know there were roughly 800 manual coded engines built and 200 auto's.... and some of those had to be replacement engines so we are talking less than 1000 cars total.
We can talk about it now because everyone knows about them . But back in 69 even most Camaro guys didn't. and in 1969 there were so many options for a Camaro it was unheard of! Engine options .. straight 6 , 327 , 307 , 350 , 302 , 396 ... and some of the displacements also had multiple HP ratings like the 396 at 325,350 and 375 HP and an aluminum head option. Over the counter Cross Rams for the 302 ...Totally different time......

I think it would be easy for GM to produce additional engine options . I just don't think their partners... the US government is interested. But you never know.... maybe some racing success will help , just like it did in the old days
Like I said, it just seems easy. You have to develop each one of those options, tuen each one of the suspensions and calibarate each every engine/trans combination. Each and every combination adds millions in development costs. To recoupe those you need more volume, more volume impacts CAFE. And build combinations are simply crazy for a plant to deal with.

Yes it COULD be done. It's just more difficult than it seems.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:36 AM   #45
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Honestly, I do think the Z/28 deserves a hand build engine. Just like the SVT Cars. I had two Cobras 97 and a 04. I think it is pretty neat too have a signed hand built engine. So, yes I would love to see either an LS7 or LS9 in the Z/28 because they are hand built in Wixom. I would prefer the LS7. I am not knocking the LSA motor either. It is one hell of a motor. Bottom line, I just want GM to produce the Z/28, and make it one hell of a power house.
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:52 AM   #46
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^Absolutely!!!
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2002 Camaro SS M6 #8815 SOLD
First Street Dominator 427ci. built by: Mike @ Rapid Motorsports.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:28 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevyThunder View Post
I think the COPO process that produced the 427 Camaro's in 1969 has been a bit simplified here. I own a 69 COPO with 7600 original miles. I don't know everything about them but I know a little. There are no known documented Van Nuys built COPO Camaro's in 1969 . All the documented cars are from the Norwood , Ohio plant and most of those cars were ordered by dealers in Ohio , and other parts of the mid-west . Most dealers had no idea you could order a COPO camaro. I have never seen an advertisement for a COPO in a 1968 or 1969 magazine. The 427 COPO Camaro's flew under the radar.No one knows how many were built but we know there were roughly 800 manual coded engines built and 200 auto's.... and some of those had to be replacement engines so we are talking less than 1000 cars total.
We can talk about it now because everyone knows about them . But back in 69 even most Camaro guys didn't. and in 1969 there were so many options for a Camaro it was unheard of! Engine options .. straight 6 , 327 , 307 , 350 , 302 , 396 ... and some of the displacements also had multiple HP ratings like the 396 at 325,350 and 375 HP and an aluminum head option. Over the counter Cross Rams for the 302 ...Totally different time......

I think it would be easy for GM to produce additional engine options . I just don't think their partners... the US government is interested. But you never know.... maybe some racing success will help , just like it did in the old days
Good information, however there were COPO L72s built at the Van Nuys Plant as well as plants other than Norwood and Baltimore.

I had a documented COPO L72 Chevelle which was built at the Van Nuys Plant and know of at least two COPO 9561 Camaros built at Van Nuys, with a few on the maybe list.

427 Camaros are cool in all generations
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:07 PM   #48
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Here's an idea they could call it a Firebird. No ones using that name any more.
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:00 PM   #49
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This thread is not about the Z/28, its about more LE engine options and such.
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