Livernois vs Lingenfelter

[parkerjk628]

Below is what each company's website (copied straight from the sites) lists as being included in their package. Obviously, they have multiple packages available and additional mods will increase the cost, but I chose to compare the two packages in a similar price range...

Livernois S630 Performance Package - Installed, Price $10,349

Our S630 Performance package for the 2010-2015 Camaro SS is our highest power level offering available, while keeping stock-like drivability until the moment you unleash it's full potential with the accelerator pedal. Adding instant power that is available throughout the entire RPM band make it easy to see why it's our #1 inquired package. These upgrades allow for gains of up to 165hp and 130tq on 93 octane fuel!

This package includes the following parts from Livernois Motorsports:

- Livernois Motorsports Professional Installation
- Livernois Motorsports EvenFlo Thermostat
- Livernois Motorsports MyCalibrator Tuner
- Livernois Motorsports Custom Dyno Tuning
- Whipple 2.9L Twin Screw Supercharger
- Roto-Fab Cold Air Intake
- 3 Bar Map Sensor
- Upgraded Fuel Pump
- Injector Dynamics ID1050x Injectors
- 1-Year Warranty

Lingenfelter Magnuson TVS2300 Package - Installed, Price $10,995

550 BHP / 550 lbs-ft of torque

Package includes:
- Magnuson TVS2300 intercooled supercharger system
- Black powder coated finish
- Based on OEM Eaton supercharger unit
- Properly sized fuel injectors
- 160 Degree thermostat
- Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump fuel pump voltage booster
- Lingenfelter High Flow Air Intake
- Professional installation, testing and calibration
- Chassis dyno report before & after installation
- Excellent drivability, highway mileage not adversely affected
- Lingenfelter 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty
- Lingenfelter fender, interior & engine badges
- Lingenfelter certificate of authenticity

[jeff657756]

What are your HP goals?

[parkerjk628]

Originally Posted by jeff657756

What are your HP goals?

I never really set an actual goal, but I'd say 600 crank would be sufficient. My plan with the car is not to take it to the track or drag strip, but drive around town on nice evenings/weekends, attend car shows and occasionally open it up when the opportunity presents itself! Not looking to go extreme, so I'd prefer it to drive like stock until stepping on it.

[Olddudesrule]

Based on the packages as described, I'd go with Lingenfelter. HP #'s seem the same (Livernois measured at the crank/Lingenfelter at the rear), but the three year warranty from Lingenfelter is hard to beat!

[mrimpala02]

I would ask both companies a couple of questions for clarification.

Livernois states an upgrade fuel pump. What pump are they including? The ID1050X also very good injectors so that is a plus. But as Jeff asked what are you HP goals?

Lingenfelter adds a 3 year warranty which is only involved @ they claimed 550 BHP(~470 rwhp). While that is attractive you more than likely wouldn't break anything at that HP level. So unless your prone to bad luck that is kind of a wash. You need clarification on what the "properly sized injectors" are (i.e. brand and size). I also am not too fond of them just adding a boost a pump to the stock SS pump instead of an upgrade. Depending on your HP goals it will most likely be fine, but to me a BAP is a band-aid fix instead of addressing the true issue of needing a larger capacity fuel system (HP goals??). A BAP is not a very expensive part so how are they justifying the package costing more with less parts expense. I would imagine it goes to the warranty, badging and just the name.

Then they add on the badging which is probably another huge chunk of change $$$. If that is your thing, then more power to you and they are charging you alot for that.

At the end of the day you will have a nice fun ride either way. I wouldn't put to much value on the resale of a Camaro.

While the Ligenfelter name is great I don't think it will net you that much value when it comes to resale. 5th gen Camaro are relatively inexpensive and they made a ton of them and that's what most people will look for when they are buying or at least the angle they will take. If someone is looking for a modded car maybe a slightly different story. If a Ligenfelter built car vs a Livernois built car were side by side for the same price perhaps someone would buy the Ligenfelter car first. But chances are you going to want to sell your car around the same price range a used ZL1 would be going for to get some of your money back, well then that buyer would pick the ZL1 at the same price level.

[mrimpala02]

Originally Posted by Olddudesrule

Based on the packages as described, I'd go with Lingenfelter. HP #'s seem the same (Livernois measured at the crank/Lingenfelter at the rear), but the three year warranty from Lingenfelter is hard to beat!

Actually, Ligenfelter numbers are BHP which is crank. Livernois just show a 165 hp increase, but doesn't state whether its rear wheel or BHP. If it is BHP then 426hp(stock) + 165 = 591 BHP.

[jeff657756]

Originally Posted by parkerjk628

I never really set an actual goal, but I'd say 600 crank would be sufficient. My plan with the car is not to take it to the track or drag strip, but drive around town on nice evenings/weekends, attend car shows and occasionally open it up when the opportunity presents itself! Not looking to go extreme, so I'd prefer it to drive like stock until stepping on it.

Sounds like you are comfortable paying top dollar. However, you can get the power those sites state with an LSA conversion for half the price. Should be reliable as long you dont have a shit tune. If you arent taking it to the track, you won't need a "warranty". Our cars aren't fragile. Your budget of 8-9k is PLENTY for an lsa conversion and good fuel system. $10-$12k is lot of money for 500-550whp and a baby fuel system with no room for upgrades in the future.

If i had to choose a PD blower with unlimited funds, it would be a whipple. If i was on a budget and still wanted to make a decent amount of power down the road, lsa. But i went twin turbo so don't listen to me lol.

[stratman2SSRS]

Take a serious look at the Lingenfelter 650 package.
The 3 year warranty gives you some peace of mind.
You might be paying an extra $40 for the badges, it's up to you if you want to stick them on the car.

[Little Walter]

Down here in New Orleans there is a lot of high dollar street racing that go on constantly. I see quiet a few cars both Livernois and Ligenfelter built, both are nice, reliable and the highest quality of work you will fine, but always apples to apples running the Livernois cars are always a bit faster for some reason. In your case you want go wrong with a whipple charger at all. Another thing that I notice being around all the cars are no nicks or chips from under the hood work on the Livernois cars what so ever. If you are a car show guy that is paramount for me.

[Little Walter]

Warranty's are great, but seemly most guys that I talk too have had very few problems, but if they do somehow the shops come up with a reason to make it your fault if its something really costly anyway. They are not responsible for bad gas, etc and ton of other things to wiggle them out of honoring the warranty in full. Like I mentioned there are several of both of those guys vehicles (Livernois and Ligenfelter) running around here that truly get beat on and I haven't seen actually any failures from either one. Warranty have never been a deciding factor for me as much as a well respected proven repeatable tuner/ shop when it comes to stepping it up on the performance end.

[QUICRNU]

Parts Value goes to Livernois assuming some.....

ID1050x >>> appropriate for 550rwhp (65lb injector maybe?)

Fuel Pump >>> BAP (assuming its a ZL1 pump with module or better)

Whipple >>>> Maggie (but the 1.9L LSA is plenty blower for your goal)

so value speaking on advertised parts.... Livernois.




I'm sure they are both good though, so it will be hard for you to mess this up

[Detroit Muscle]

Originally Posted by jeff657756

Sounds like you are comfortable paying top dollar. However, you can get the power those sites state with an LSA conversion for half the price. Should be reliable as long you dont have a shit tune. If you arent taking it to the track, you won't need a "warranty". Our cars aren't fragile. Your budget of 8-9k is PLENTY for an lsa conversion and good fuel system. $10-$12k is lot of money for 500-550whp and a baby fuel system with no room for upgrades in the future.

If i had to choose a PD blower with unlimited funds, it would be a whipple. If i was on a budget and still wanted to make a decent amount of power down the road, lsa. But i went twin turbo so don't listen to me lol.

I agree with this guy, LSA conversion and boom you have a ZL1

[parkerjk628]

Again, thanks to everybody for providing input. I have a message out to the sales rep from Lingenfelter basically explaining the comparison I showed above, asking him to "sell me" on going with them over Livernois. I think Livernois' pricing can be negotiated while LPE seems pretty set with their pricing (I'm sure they're not hurting for work so that doesn't surprise me).

Also, I had looked at pricing out an LSA conversion in the past and think I had seen so many different numbers that I got confused/frustrated and just stopped researching. Also, besides LPE, there aren't too many speed shops/reputable installers within a couple hours of me and I wouldn't want to take on this project myself. However, I may look into the LSA again a little more this week since a few of you recommend it while being much more budget-friendly.

[Little Walter]

Originally Posted by Detroit Muscle

I agree with this guy, LSA conversion and boom you have a ZL1

It will be nice but not a ZL1 still by far and it will not have the numbers of a ZL1 due to the higher compression that a LS3 engine have which will definitely require lower boost levels. The internals in the engine are not the same nor the suspension or other drive train parts. I know what you are saying as well, but a LSA Supercharger complete is around $6000.00 plus and if He go with a cam it would require different injectors and at least a ZL1 fuel pump or BAP still.