Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-30-2011, 01:12 PM   #99
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
Also we know some R&D was done on putting the LS7 in the Camaro. Just what was done to the red LS7 Camaro? Anyone remember?
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 05:52 PM   #100
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,372
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Also we know some R&D was done on putting the LS7 in the Camaro. Just what was done to the red LS7 Camaro? Anyone remember?
Show cars don't mean any R&D has been done. All it means for sure is that stuck an LS7 into a Camaro engine bay, not the most difficult of tasks. It might not have even ran.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 06:22 PM   #101
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
^ how do we find out? Hey Number 3?
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 08:35 PM   #102
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
Here's the encouraging news. The Camaro's current Chief Engineer does have a better understanding of the car than perhaps his predecessor had. It's no accident that the Camaro GT500 competitor got a last minute name change to ZL1.

The target for a REAL Z/28 is the Boss - and that's a good thing. Camaro's current architecture does have it's limitations but at least the right focus is finally there.

Let' see what they come up with!
Would like to know if there is any more info on this???
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 12:40 PM   #103
CamaroSpike23
Truth Enforcer
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,797
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Show cars don't mean any R&D has been done. All it means for sure is that stuck an LS7 into a Camaro engine bay, not the most difficult of tasks. It might not have even ran.
it did run. but like you said, all it was, was an LS7 and a six speed trans. nothing much more to it.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
A group as a whole tends to be smarter than the smartest person in that group until one jackass convinces everyone otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 01:05 PM   #104
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Forged wheels may offer a reduction. But GM has some pretty severe wheel requirements. I know shopping for my Sky I can find some "race" wheels that save about 8 pounds per wheel. But race means no potholes.

Manual seats for sure, but only a few pounds. I know my Sky has power height on the driver side, but manual for all others. So that can work.

I will let Pedders comment on this. My first instinct is they actually weigh a bit more. But that is a factless observation. Factless no more we save about 18 pounds with Xa coilovers and breakeven with the Supercars.

I haven't seen the EPS mass. ZL1 has EPS, SS doesn't so if it weighs less it's good. Plus better FE.

LS7 is for sure more power and awesomeness. But just big bucks due to the manual build in Wixom. I'd hope for a nice LS3 bump. Problem there is you now make the LS7 obsolete. Why pay big bucks for 505 when you can get 450+ for much less.

Gearing something that I think could add an immediate benefit. Honestly not sure why we haven't tapped into this.

I like your numbers, which would require the LS7.

I think your cost is ok, but not with the LS7 which is the contradiction.

But for me, here is what I would do to drop the weight and still have a car pleasant to drive every day.

Start with a 1SS

Eliminate all engine covers and plastic in the engine compartment. If it isn't moving fuel or coolant..............gone.

Manual seats.

No fog lamps. No LS filler. Just a simple fascia.

No mail slot.

No floor mats. (optional on 1SS anyway??)

No trunk trim, no flat load floor, no spare, no inflator. Just a can of fix a flat.

No folding rear seat. Yes, I want a rear seat or I'd just buy a Corvette. But I don't need latches and pull strap to fold it down on very rare occasions.

I'd remove some but not all NVH treatments. Lighter dash mat, reduced mastic materials on the body.

Eliminate the push/push fuel door and add the finger cup back in. This eliminates the push pin mechanism.

Smaller bare bones console. Simple arm rest in between the seats.

No power passenger side rear view mirror.

Go to a 15 gallon fuel tank. Saves full tank of fuel mass and also just a smaller, lighter tank.

Thinner glass for windshield, doors, back light and quarter glass.

That might, and I'm guessing save 50 pounds, not counting the reduction of 3 gallons of gas (an extra 20 pounds)

Adds:

Carbon fiber hood

Titanium exhaust (C5 Z06)

Glass Matt battery (bad for performance, but good for mass)


Magnesium front cradle (C6 Z06)

Low mass race wheels (C5 had titanium but wouldn't go quite that far)

Again, guessing a bit, you might save another 100 pounds.

So total reduced weight 150 pounds over a 1SS.

If at all possible, get the Wixom LS3 (reported to make more power) and add tweak it where possible. Only asking for 450 at the crank.

Now add the suspension improvements from the ZL1 minus MR shocks.

Widen the front tires to help understeer.


Now you have a slightly lighter, slightly more powerful and slightly better handling car.

That will likely not get your 0 - 60 in 4.0 seconds or 12 second 1/4, but might make the rest of your numbers.
#3 has the Z28 close to dialed. I would add:

ZL1 / CTS-V Brakes

Two piece rotors

Brake ducts where the gogs used to be.

More aggressive sway bars

The 'small' changes are HUGE. 30 more HP / TQ with more aggressive gears will make a HUGE difference in performance. Taking over 100 pounds out of the car is another HUGE plus. Just taking the highlighted in red steps toward the Z28 makes the project cost effective for GM and the consumer.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 05:59 PM   #105
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
What do you mean?
Anything beside what you had already stated regarding the Camaros chief engineer?
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:00 PM   #106
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Anything beside what you had already stated regarding the Camaros chief engineer?
Yes, Al should Pedderise every Camaro that goes down the line
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:05 PM   #107
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
Wow 18 lbs. Saved with Peddders coilovers?!!!

Pete the 4.5 lbs. Per corner added unsprung weight from the Supercars does it negate the Supercars benefits?
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:34 PM   #108
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
I'm just saying that I think Al Oppenheiser "gets it". I think he understands the Camaro. I also think he gets what a REAL Z/28 is all about - something which probably hasn't been the case previously.

We should also thank the Boss Mustang for giving GM a little bit of clarity here as well.
Gotcha and no doubt the Boss caused the name change.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:53 PM   #109
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Wow 18 lbs. Saved with Peddders coilovers?!!!

Pete the 4.5 lbs. Per corner added unsprung weight from the Supercars does it negate the Supercars benefits?
The Xa coilovers are lighter than stock. The Supercars are the same. We save weight on both coilover models with the high silicone, high strength steel we use. The Xa is a 42mm diameter monotube while the Supercar is a 52mm monotube. As we increase the diameter of the coilover along with the oil volume we add weight. The larger diameter bore and piston equate to smoother control. Add in a reservoir for additional oil volume. Combine them and the ability to dissipate heat is increased. Out testing results are that the Supercars deliver over a one second per lap gain. That is HUGE! Nickey Chicago just ran thier Road race version at the Autobahn in Joliet and picked up over 2 seconds with the Supercars and CTS-V brakes.

Long story short, just like the heavier ZL1 dif and halfshafts adding durability means more weight. That means we look to shave weight in other components like titanium exhaust, powerless seats....
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 06:44 AM   #110
LostInMoscow
Exiled Speed Junkie
 
LostInMoscow's Avatar
 
Drives: None
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 803
You know, as cool as the LS7 is, I don't understand why anyone would pay more for an LS7 with less HP than an LSA, especially when you can mod the LSA so cheaply. Yes, the LS7 is a great engine, but I wouldn't pay extra for one over an LSA, especially if they got rid of the dry sump oil system.

Driving in a Z06 is a blast! I'm all for it! That's where the LS7 belongs!
__________________
LostInMoscow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 11:33 AM   #111
LOWDOWN
Downright Upright
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
I don't know why the "urban legend" of LS7s co$ting more than LSAs persists. GM PP sells LS7s for about $3,000 LESS than an LSA...and I seriously doubt they use the LS7 as a "loss leader"...

If we're talking about BOSS production numbers being roughly the equivalent for a Z/28, by the time you do ALL the work necessary to get a "hot" LS3 ready for Production, you'll eat up most of the currently-$6,000 difference 'tween the current RPO LS3 crate engine, and the LS7...with at least 10% less hp and an even greater differential in torque.

As per Number 3's assertion, that low/mid-$40s was "do-able" for the LS7, I doubt you'll see much sticker relief with the "hot" LS3. BOSS set a price mark that's not likely to decrease with GM, so let's get as much n/a engine as we can! And THAT would be the LS7. Delete/change what "fits" the budget, then add the wheels/tires/bushings/bars/bits 'n pieces...

With 2SSs @ mid/upper $30s, and the ZL1 breaking $50,000 (+options), a low/mid-$40s Z/28 splits the difference, and rightly fits the price ladder.

Last edited by LOWDOWN; 06-01-2011 at 11:54 AM.
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 01:07 PM   #112
LostInMoscow
Exiled Speed Junkie
 
LostInMoscow's Avatar
 
Drives: None
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
I don't know why the "urban legend" of LS7s co$ting more than LSAs persists. GM PP sells LS7s for about $3,000 LESS than an LSA...
I believe that if you read the fine print, that doesn't include the dry sump oil system, which really puts you in a tight spot. Now you either have to mod your car to accept the dry sump system and buy the dry sump system, or you have to adapt the LS7 to work without one, which I've never seen done before. Either way, it's not going to be cheap.

Another thing that the LSA has over the LS7 is about 80 Lbs Ft of torque.

Don't get me wrong, I love the LS7! It's a great engine! If they put one in the Z28, it would be cool, but I'd still buy a ZL1.
__________________
LostInMoscow is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
700 hp z/28 in 2014, the greatest camaro

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transcript of Camaro ZL1 Q&A Webchat with Chevrolet Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 42 12-22-2017 04:42 AM
BREAKING: 2012 CAMARO ZL1 - 6.2L LSA Supercharged - 6MT Revealed! Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 756 05-01-2013 06:22 AM
Installation Camaro Needed for Manual for a Justice Install Package in SF Bay Area Info@PeddersUSA.com USA - California 6 04-30-2010 08:02 PM
The DEFINITIVE EXPLANATION OF CAMARO SUSPENSION, ISSUES, AND UPGRADES Info@PeddersUSA.com Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 106 10-19-2009 06:08 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.