'14 AGM 1SS/1LE Track build [COTW 11/17/14]

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Hey X, I spoke to moderator on CF and they said to use the technical discussion of the appropriate generation for a build journal. I'm a bit surprised they don't have a specific section a lot of those guys sure do like making their car look pretty.

Anyways, I started mine.

You should too



Pete, they can barley add toe in with negative camber. I say apparently because it's the dealership and well we all know about dealerships. Unfortunately they're the only ones in my area with the rear caster measuring tool and gauge. The tech at my local track is going to get the tool after I talked to him about how huge of a difference it made. When he does I'll get a more legit alignment. Right now here's where I'm at:

Front (Driver/Passenger):
Camber: -2.0 / -2.1
Caster: 7.1 / 7.2
Toe: 0.01 toe in / 0.01 toe in

Rear (Driver/Passenger)
Camber: -2.0 / -1.9
Toe: 0.02 toe in / 0.02 toe in
Caster: Zero'd out

I wish you were closer so we could play with this.

[X25]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Hey X, I spoke to moderator on CF and they said to use the technical discussion of the appropriate generation for a build journal. I'm a bit surprised they don't have a specific section a lot of those guys sure do like making their car look pretty.

Anyways, I started mine.

You should too



Pete, they can barley add toe in with negative camber. I say apparently because it's the dealership and well we all know about dealerships. Unfortunately they're the only ones in my area with the rear caster measuring tool and gauge. The tech at my local track is going to get the tool after I talked to him about how huge of a difference it made. When he does I'll get a more legit alignment. Right now here's where I'm at:

Front (Driver/Passenger):
Camber: -2.0 / -2.1
Caster: 7.1 / 7.2
Toe: 0.01 toe in / 0.01 toe in

Rear (Driver/Passenger)
Camber: -2.0 / -1.9
Toe: 0.02 toe in / 0.02 toe in
Caster: Zero'd out

I actually went a different route and asked them to 'create' a member journals section : ) The admin I talked to said they're considering it.

The caster issue is pretty scary. I really don't want to bring my car to any dealer. We'll see!

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by X25

I actually went a different route and asked them to 'create' a member journals section : ) The admin I talked to said they're considering it.

The caster issue is pretty scary. I really don't want to bring my car to any dealer. We'll see!

haha we're on the same page. I messaged CF admin "savewave" about adding a section. But he told me:

"Chris:

Threads along those lines at Corvetteforum typically are posted in the Tech sections of the appropriate generation. We have an engine build section ...

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/engine-mods-7/

... but it gets so little activity, we've considered consolidating it with some other sections.

When we have sections that don't get much use, they appear static and people stop using them.

Jim"

Guess we'll see what happens.

In regards to alignment, you should be OK from the factory. But as soon as you start messing with the rear end alignment you're going to be changing rear caster and without measuring it you have no idea to what effect you're changing it. It would probably be incremental but who knows. It's a huge pain in the ass.

Have you seen the latest Ask Tadge? It was addressing the Track Alignment problems. Here it is.

[X25]

Finally created a build thread for the C7 Z51. I ordered every part I think I'll need; we'll see how it goes : )
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...ack-build.html

Current mods list. Last update: 5/29/16 -- THIS POST WILL BE KEPT UP-TO-DATE
Legend: Planned | Procured/Ordered | Installed

• Engine / Powertrain
  • Z06 cooling upgrades:
    • Grille (23507619).
    • Quarter panel vents (23373152).
    • 600-WATT radiator fan (23376530).
    • Transmission cooler core (23283460).
    • Secondary radiator (84037858).
  • DeWitts C7 radiator; gen 2 (1139114M).
• Interior
  • OEM D Shaped Steering Wheel Manual Suede Black Stitching (23273168).
  • OEM 7SPD Manual Suede Shift Knob Black Stitching (24269693).
  • OEM C7 Genuine GM Suede Shift Boot Black Stitching (23174526).
  • Sharkbar gloss black with lap-belt-bar-kit.
  • Schroth Profi II ASM race harness in gray.
  • OEM Competition seat conversion kit w/suede/heater delete. $1640 shipped.
  • Seat bottom cushion covers; black w/suede insert for GT seats (23133448, 22997067).
• Handling
  • OEM (Bosch) Digital Angle Gauge Adapter. Needed to adjust rear caster (CH-47960-10).
  • OEM T1 Competition suspension package (23336064).
    • Stabilizer bars (40% stiffer front And 20% stiffer rear; allows wider front tires)
    • Lower Control Arms W/Stiffer Bushings (up to 500% stiffer).
    • Track-Optimized Passive Shocks (cheap!; front 22873513, rear 22873509).
  • Aero
    • APR Performance Aero Kit Ver.II Track Pack. link.
      • Track Pack Front Air Dam with Canards / Spats. link.
      • Side Rocker Extensions. link.
      • Track Pack Rear Deck Spoiler with adjustable wicker bill. link.
    • OEM splash guards (F/R) (22935635, 22935639).
  • Tires / Wheels
    • Nitto NT01 275/35/18 front, 305/30/19 rear.
    • CCW TS12 wheels 18x10.5 ET57 front, 19x11.5 ET83 rear.
  • Brakes
    • C7 Z06 brakes (370 mm; link).
    • Spare OEM rear rotors (20981822).
    • Raybestos ST47 front, ST45 rear (RC1405, RC1718).
• Fluids
  • Engine oil: Mobil1 5W-30 or 0W-40.
  • Differential oil: TBD.
  • Transmission oil: Amsoil Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic ATF.
  • Brake fluid: Motul RBF 600.
  • Coolant: GM DexCool @30%.
  • Suspension grease: Amsoil Synthetic Polymeric Truck, Chassis and Equipment Grease, NLGI #2.
• Other / Discussions
  • Best C7 setup for track duty (link).
  • C7 Z06 front brakes for $1150 + pads! (link).

[jamestown]

Originally Posted by X25

Finally created a build thread for the C7 Z51. I ordered every part I think I'll need; we'll see how it goes : )
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...ack-build.html

Nice! Thanks for the link.

[Firefighter]

Man I checked that link. You're not wasting any time.

[X25]

It's been a while, and I thought I should update you guys.

I've traded-in the Camaro, and wanted to try something new, and C7 Z51 looked like a great option with the discounts I could get. The MSRP for the car is $61395, but I was able to get it for $52K (+tax and registration) after all the discounts.

... but why?
The main reason why I did the change was that I damaged the front-end of the car at RMP, and even though it felt pretty minor (no fluid leak), the body shop stated one of the front frame extensions carrying the engine (and the engine cradle) was bent, meaning removal of everything past the firewall! Since I hated anyone else touching my car for any mechanical work, I decided to change it. I almost bought a Z/28 from a forum member here for $42K, but eventually decided to just try something else.


This car is by far the manliest car I've ever owned.


On its way to the dealer as a trade-in!


My new ride, '16 C7 Z51 1LT, the day I bought it.


How it looks today (still not finished; missing the side rocker panels).

I will finally get to try it at the track tomorrow, and I'm very excited! I have a few opinions on how the ride/experience is compared to the Camaro, but I'll wait until tomorrow end of day to add track experience as well to the comparison. And no, I won't say everything is better (shifter linkage is better on Camaro, for instance).

[clarkkent]

Looks familiar! Hopefully you can get it on the track today!

[Macaro]

Well how was the track? How does it compare? Please post up your findings...

[X25]

Originally Posted by Macaro

Well how was the track? How does it compare? Please post up your findings...

Below is from Friday. I'm on my way to Oregon Raceway Park right now, and it will be 92 degrees; a real stress test!

Originally Posted by X25

Finally got to try the car at the track yesterday for the last few sessions of the track day. I had to take it easy since I am getting used to it, and GM wants us to take it easy during the first one for the sake of differential, so I did.


These are the settings that I went with. It did not show any excessive wear on any tire, so at least at the current level of pushing the car, these seem to work OK.


Right before it got pretty dirty with the debris : P


Here is the video.

• The camera position will be fixed once I install the harness bar next week.
• As you can see, I sandbagged quite a bit on braking zones, and also shifting on some of the corners, especially the beginning of the front straight (where I had an incident earlier this year). This was my first hot lap of the second session, and I could not do anything else after this lap since I hit the traffic.
• The remaining fuel % reported seems to be very fluctuating at the track. I'll remove it next time.

Remarks

• Temps:
  • I could not log the oil temp with RaceChrono since it does not yet support custom PIDs. I did keep an eye on it, though, and it seems to have stayed below ~260 degrees; pretty good!
  • Coolant's range was also in line with my experience with other V8 cars; nothing to worry about. As you can see from the video, it does not exceed ~220 or so, and it is stable lap after lap (no runaway).
  • Transmission did not exceed low 200s with the Z06 cooler core; looks good!
• The good:
  • Brakes: The brakes, combined with ST47/45 pads, have INSANE stopping power! This, combined with this chassis that does not lock up tires no matter how strong I apply brakes, makes the best brakes I've ever had in any of my cars. This also means that there is so much time to be made out of braking zones. We'll see!
  • Turn-in: The corkscrew turn right (just a few small turns) before the front straight was very challenging back when I owned a '13 Z06, since the car just did not want to turn. Looks like eDiff indeed works; the car turns a bit more than 90 degrees effortlessly, with no issues! I actually loved it. I am also wondering if I am over-breaking with my insane brakes, making the turn easier than it should be, but it is hard to say. I'll try to see next time.
• The bad:
  • Pedals:
    • Combined with the more retarded throttle mapping in track mode (GM thinks this makes it easier for us to modulate throttle in corners), you need to blip the throttle quite hard to get to the appropriate revs. My feet, at 10.5 shoe size, and perhaps my legs, are not big/tall enough to blip sufficiently.
    • I even started wondering if this was one of the reasons they came up with the rev-match feature. Anyhow, I try my best, and the rev match feature fills in the rest.
    • One of the nice things about rev-match feature, unlike the implementations at other cars, it does not engage until transmission is already shifted, so someone who does heel-and-toe can still do so, and the system would only 'add' throttle if the user's input was not enough; very nice!
    • High compression: I think as a consequence of having a very high compression engine, the engine does brake the car quite when you lift. This makes it a little trickier to find the right input when you need to lift. I fear I might lift it too much one day while negotiating a corner, getting myself into trouble. So far, though, it was very easy to control.
  • GT seat:
    • It's just not sufficient. I am a bit sore even now, and I was not able to down-shift as much as I'd like, since hard brake zones made it impossible for me to shift (use clutch) and also stay in my seat, since my left foot had to keep me in balance. I will convert the seats to Competition with suede-inserts as soon as I'm done with Monday track day.
    • I will also do the harness bar, which should remedy this issue, and also prove a much better place to mount the camera.

[Macaro]

Thank you, great video. Try as I might, I didn't see the sandbagging...

So the -2.3 degree camber - is that something you can get stock or do you have plates?

And, what about comparing the C7 to your old 1LE? Can you do that yet or do you need some more seat time?

[X25]

Originally Posted by Macaro

Thank you, great video. Try as I might, I didn't see the sandbagging...

So the -2.3 degree camber - is that something you can get stock or do you have plates?

And, what about comparing the C7 to your old 1LE? Can you do that yet or do you need some more seat time?

Thanks! Hopefully it will get better : )

Since Corvettes have unequal length control arms, not MacPherson type struts, you cannot use camber plates. The upper control arms come with extra washers from the factory. By removing the washers, you can get about 0.3 - 0.4 more camber per washer removed. I removed one from each control arm.

I need more time for a better comparison, but will hopefully do soon : )

[clarkkent]

After the track day (my car is strategically covering most of the rubber on x25's rockers lol)

[X25]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

After the track day (my car is strategically covering most of the rubber on x25's rockers lol)

Nice pic; thanks for sharing!

Here is my post regarding my track day today. In short, I stressed the car quite a bit at 95-98 degrees F track temps, and the car never hit more than 265 degrees F oil; amazing. I'm still not able to hit the best times I did with my Camaro, though:

Originally Posted by X25

Today's track day was a serious stress test!

The forecast for weather was 92 degrees F max, but apparently the valley where the track is located reaches much higher temps. We checked with the digital thermometer that belongs to the track, and it was about 95 degrees F in the afternoon, and even more at the track. As you can imagine, this means I've had one of the hottest conditions we ever get to see in Pacific Northwest today.

Below is the video from the last session, where temps hit 98 degrees F by the end (indicated by the car and my truck):


My remarks on temps:

• The ambient temps varied 94-98 during this session. To give you an idea, I drank about 5 Aquafina bottles of water during the few hours I was at the track, and never felt the need to visit the restrooms : )
• Coolant:
  • Max coolant temp I hit during the whole session was 219 degrees F. This is very much acceptable, though I should note that we probably lose HP for every degree away from 190 degrees F or so.
  • The coolant temps varied about 15 degrees during hot laps (i.e. the temps varied from 203-219 degrees F, depending on the part of the track).
  • During the cool-down laps, it quickly went below 200 degrees F.
• Engine oil:
  • This was the biggest surprise of the day: The engine oil temps never exceeded 265 degrees F! This is amazing, considering the very high ambient temps.
  • Looks like Z06 grille + aux rad cooler + diluted coolant works wonders. I was hoping this would be the outcome since this combination even solved overheating problems of most of the Z06s, but it is still surprising.
  • One thing I noticed was that the oil temps were pretty slow to come down during a cool-down lap. During my test, it only came down to 248 degrees F or so from 265 degrees F, despite driving at 5th gear at low RPMs. It removed about 20 degrees F per cool-down lap. I'd personally not want to park the car before I hit 225 degrees or less to avoid cooking the oil at the hot-spots of the engine.
• Transmission:
  • The transmission temps almost went parallel to engine oil temps, and they were acceptable.
  • They took twice longer to cool-down when compared to engine oil, though.
  • Overall, I did not have any issues with transmission temps, either; the bigger Z06 cooler core seems to be doing its job.
• Tires:
  • Despite very hot temps, the NT01 tires did not lose their traction as much as I thought they would.
  • I settled at 28-29 PSI (or so) cold, hitting 38 PSI or so at the track. The tires ran very hot, but I suppose there's no way out at those ambient temps.
• Brakes:
  • As with my first time out at the Ridge, the brakes were excellent. They never missed a bit, and I did not notice any change in bite, either.
  • Z06 iron brakes are great choice for Z51, and I had all the braking power I'd ever need. In fact, I'm still braking too early; a habit developed by underwhelming brakes of many other cars I drove.
  • We should note here that the suspension is also very much up for the task, and instead of locking up with too much brake force, it allows the car to slow down in a very fast pace; well done GM.

Driving impressions:

• I got a bit better at driving the car during this (second) time out. I brought the seat a bit closer, and steering wheel a bit further away to offset, and the combination allowed me to heel-and-toe much much better. I think I might get away with not installing extended pedals; we'll see.
• I think 1:59.3 is a pretty good start for this track considering the temps. To give you an idea, my best time with my Camaro 1LE (with Z/28 suspension/tires) was 1:57.1, and it was 1:57.9 with my then-supercharged '13 Miata. Both times were had in much cooler temps, but with similar tires (Trofeo Rs on Camaro, and NT01s on Miata).
• I need racing harness. I literally hurt my knee, trying to pin myself to the seat by pushing on the door. I also need the seat to do more gear changes, since I cannot change gears in some of the braking zones due to having hard time keeping my orientation in hard braking zones. I must be losing a considerable time to this wrestling during my hot-laps.
• Speaking of which, seats would help me on reducing the early-braking that is ever resent in all my laps.
• I decided to switch back to track mode for the dashboard. It's a it stupid with its manual lap timer and missing actual numbers regarding temps, but it's still better with its nice RPM gauge.

QUESTION: I did switch to tour mode during my cool-down laps to check on actual temps, and switched back once the cool-down or my peeking at numbers was over. The competition mode is not available in tour mode. During this switch back-and-forth, did I lose competitive mode? In other words, do I need to re-enable competitive mode each time I switch back and forth on modes?

Looking forward to seeing how the Gen6 Camaros will fare regarding heat management. Looks like GM has learned a trick or two, and they're finally starting to make their cars handle heat much better.