[Bhobbs]

Sounds like a manual, as it should.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Sounds like a manual, as it should.

bhobbs is happy that's saying a lot

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

bhobbs is happy that's saying a lot

Hey, I'm happy every once in a while.

[Sidedraft]

Originally Posted by newb

Sales are what keeps a car in the line up. Not the performance. The 4th gen was getting it's butt handed to it in the sales race even though it out performed the Mustang in almost every performance category. And we know how that ended.

Yeah, GM killed the F-bodies because it was more profitable for them to build SUVs and trucks, that people were buying, instead of sink r&d into sports cars that no one was buying. The Corvette was almost killed off as well. People look at Mustang vs. Camaro sales from that time period as if they are in a vacuum and try to apply it today, yet the market is completely different.

The Camaro was the more expensive car for the fifth generation. How did that turn out?

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by newb

Sales are what keeps a car in the line up. Not the performance. The 4th gen was getting it's butt handed to it in the sales race even though it out performed the Mustang in almost every performance category. And we know how that ended.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The Camaro was mostly the superior vehicle yet the higher prices and associated costs resulted in a much inferior vehicle (the Mustang) clubbing it in sales and driving the Camaro/Firebird out of production.

Better performance does not promise better sales. As I've been saying all along..to the average, non enthusiast buyer..a multi thousand dollar difference matters.

Statistics, performance and raw performance enthusiasts will know exactly how the two stack up and will see the Camaro is much, m uch better out of the box. However John and Jane Public who just want a good looking V8 coupe, but aren't going to track it, or race it, or hot rod it may not be able to justify a large price gap.

The 4th gen suffered from an ergonomic mess of an interior with its' long dash to raked windshield ratio which was great for aero but did nothing for interior efficiency.

I loved that car but the inside design and materials left a lot to be desired and we all know the most important buyers for our pony cars to stay in production is satisfying women who buy way more than we the enthusiast. We lost due to this narrow focus on performance and no regards to creature comfort.

GM's culture back then was that they knew what the customer wanted because they had been on top for so long and thought that we would buy whatever they forced fed us and some were crappy designs or executions for sure on a lot of cars. They lost their way for more than a decade and it didn't help matters much that they put more investment money into trucks and suv's which were and still are cash cows. They pretty much ignored the car lineup and left some to wilt and die.

That trend will not happen again as long as the current team has anything to say about it, you can bet on that. See 6th gen Camaro for proof of this if you need to.

[KMPrenger]

wow....another new video of a "new" car. Certainly seems like 1LE is the best fit for this car to me. Wider rims/tires, brakes, and likely suspension (unless MRC becomes part of the 1LE package) and some aero bits.

I can see all of that becoming part of a 1LE package for roughly the same cost (maybe a bit more) as the 5th gen 1LE package costs. I think it would be an awesome package.

Originally Posted by huggercamaro21

I think that a brake and tire upgrade would give a GT350 and run for its money.

Not quite in a straight line, but otherwise yes...I believe a "1LE" like SS will give the standard GT350 a decent run on the track. The GT350TP and GT350R...not so much.

Originally Posted by newb

I would be willing to bet money the Mustang price goes up next year. That will narrow the price argument.

May go up...maybe not. Depends on what they do. If Ford decides to increase power and do other changes, then yes...price will go up. Or they could decide to keep the base GT the same, but introduce some sort of track oriented package (above PP) that includes suspension, brakes, gearing, and more.

[huggercamaro21]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Not quite in a straight line, but otherwise yes...I believe a "1LE" like SS will give the standard GT350 a decent run on the track. The GT350TP and GT350R...not so much.

I would agree.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

A more track focused lowered suspension that doesn't try to straddle the smooth ride/handling threshold like a grand touring suspension would. No compromises for handling in a Z/28 lite like kinda way similar to a aftermarket coil over setup.

I disagree. 1Le should absolutely have MRC as an option. They will handle at least, if not better than coil overs but offer a compliant ride where coil overs ride like absolute crap.

It's all in the MRC programming. If it works really really well for the z06, It will be just fine (great actually) in the 1le and z/28 zl1. Leverage your assets.

[ilirg]

Wow that thing sounds good

[newb]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

The 4th gen suffered from an ergonomic mess of an interior with its' long dash to raked windshield ratio which was great for aero but did nothing for interior efficiency.

I loved that car but the inside design and materials left a lot to be desired and we all know the most important buyers for our pony cars to stay in production is satisfying women who buy way more than we the enthusiast. We lost due to this narrow focus on performance and no regards to creature comfort.

GM's culture back then was that they knew what the customer wanted because they had been on top for so long and thought that we would buy whatever they forced fed us and some were crappy designs or executions for sure on a lot of cars. They lost their way for more than a decade and it didn't help matters much that they put more investment money into trucks and suv's which were and still are cash cows. They pretty much ignored the car lineup and left some to wilt and die.

That trend will not happen again as long as the current team has anything to say about it, you can bet on that. See 6th gen Camaro for proof of this if you need to.

These cars, like all models, are kept alive by "average Joe buyer" who doesn't care two cent about .1s here or seconds there. They are kept alive by base sales. The people who just like the look. The Mustang has the look right now. The 5th Gen Camaro had the look. If the 6th Gen look doesn't draw enough people to the buying table, they all go away.

My only point was that Ford is the king where it counts right now, SALES. Until that changes, they will not lose any sleep. And that will not be known for a few months until Camaros are filling dealer lots and the hopeful sales boom begins.

[newb]

And I have a 5th gen 1LE and can't wait to see the 6th Gen version. I hope it does not become a watered down version of the 1LE. I love the fact that it is a small portion of the sales that doesn't appeal to the masses.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by IOMike

I disagree. 1Le should absolutely have MRC as an option. They will handle at least, if not better than coil overs but offer a compliant ride where coil overs ride like absolute crap.

It's all in the MRC programming. If it works really really well for the z06, It will be just fine (great actually) in the 1le and z/28 zl1. Leverage your assets.

1LE doesn't need MRC. I would rather get 6 piston Brembos than MRC. With MRC being offered on the SS, leave the 1LE for people who want a more hardcore car.

[newb]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

1LE doesn't need MRC. I would rather get 6 piston Brembos than MRC. With MRC being offered on the SS, leave the 1LE for people who want a more hardcore car.

This! Please do not water it down to where it becomes a large portion of the SS sales.

[ilirg]

I don't see any signs of them watering down anything, looks like they are going for the kill.