[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by RealG

You must be young, I am older and lived through the first muscle car crash. In the early 70s you could not! Give away a muscle car. We were pulling motors out of them and putting them in boats, tractor pullers anything but what they came in because they were worthless. They had discontinued leaded gas in high-octane. The cars were absolutely worthless. After they came out with lead substitutes, harden seats decades later the cars became valuable. This time when they remove gas completely they’re done. That’s why all those 70 muscle cars got chopped up for race cars. You still might be able to race these cars but you won’t be able to afford fuel. Yes it might take 10 years but you’ll be stuck with it. It’ll be like owning a racehorse or expensive art only for the very wealthy

This is what I am truly afraid of happening when I eventually get a used zl1. I’d be pretty upset if I had a 45k-55k paper weight. I can take the hit if my SS becomes a paper weight but a 45k dollar paper weight would hurt. I will say I think it will take more than 10 years. The transition physically cannot happen as quickly as some people hope it will.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Number 3

When gas got close to $4 per gallon in 2008 ish, it bankrupted GM. Bigger problems than having to sell your Camaros if gas hits $9 in anything short of 10 plus years.

Agreed.. Gas getting to $5/gallon for a lot of people will cause major issues. Many people live pay check to pay check and put $5-10 gas in their car because that is all they can afford at a time. People won't be able to get to work. Snowball effect. Very high gas prices are a long ways away.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

This is what I am truly afraid of happening when I eventually get a used zl1. I’d be pretty upset if I had a 45k-55k paper weight. I can take the hit if my SS becomes a paper weight but a 45k dollar paper weight would hurt. I will say I think it will take more than 10 years. The transition physically cannot happen as quickly as some people hope it will.

I just don't see that happening any time soon. 99% of the vehicles on the road are ICE based. Think about the millions of pickup trucks that cost north of $50k+, semi trucks and even all the hybrid vehicles that requires gasoline. Then you have the battery production challenges, lack of charging infrastructure, etc. Also, keep in mind that currently EVs are quite expensive still. The least expensive Tesla will cost you $50k after taxes.

This will be a slow transition. I would be more concerned if anyone will still want my ZL1 if Dodge releases an EV muscle car that goes 0-60mph in under 3 sec and 1/4mi in 10 flat.

[redcoats1976]

i think youre right,it would be highly embarassing to drive a ZL-1 and get smoked by mom in her family car.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

i think youre right,it would be highly embarassing to drive a ZL-1 and get smoked by mom in her family car.

The 0-60mph game is basically over. EVs with their AWD instant torque and advanced traction control enable them to blast to 60mph with ease. 0-60mph in the 3s will be common place among EV pickup trucks, sedans and probably minivans.

The challenge for performance EVs right now is matching ICE performance at higher speeds. The Model S Plaid is the first EV to maintain torque at higher speeds while still using a single speed transmission. The Porsche Taycan uses a ZF 2-speed transmission to improve performance. It will be interesting to see what GM and Dodge have up their sleeve when it comes to performance EVs moving forward.

[Red Chief]

Just looking at the EV Colorado I have to say I'm not afraid or angry at the idea of a EV Camaro. I know it's different but I love technology...and performance. I can see the potential in making sports cars more viable if they can increase the cargo capacity/seating by going electric.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Just looking at the EV Colorado I have to say I'm not afraid or angry at the idea of a EV Camaro. I know it's different but I love technology...and performance. I can see the potential in making sports cars more viable if they can increase the cargo capacity/seating by going electric.

IMHO, people afraid of going EV are only afraid of losing the "sound" and visceral feel of their V8s, or manual transmission. Yes, you will. But you'll gain OTHER things that you'll likely fall in love with. Face-melting off-the-line torque, less maintenance, cheaper usage costs...people gotta stop holding onto what they THINK is important and just try to embrace something new. People fear change.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

IMHO, people afraid of going EV are only afraid of losing the "sound" and visceral feel of their V8s, or manual transmission. Yes, you will. But you'll gain OTHER things that you'll likely fall in love with. Face-melting off-the-line torque, less maintenance, cheaper usage costs...people gotta stop holding onto what they THINK is important and just try to embrace something new. People fear change.

I don't think that's it a all. Many gear heads including myself don't hate electric cars. I really had my mind changed with have a loaner Bolt we had for a couple of days. But, the current narrative is not: 'here something for you to try', the narrative is 'a decision has been made and you need to live with it.'.

There's definitely more than the sound you're losing with a performance EV from the perspective of the Camaro designed as a daily driver you can easily take to the track. For me, EV's are not allowed at NJMP track nights (although i have seen a model 3 at a Dominion Virginia track night). And even then, i don't see how anyone could drive a couple hours to an even, and go 3,4 sessions and drive home without having charging being a major hassle.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

IMHO, people afraid of going EV are only afraid of losing the "sound" and visceral feel of their V8s, or manual transmission. Yes, you will. But you'll gain OTHER things that you'll likely fall in love with. Face-melting off-the-line torque, less maintenance, cheaper usage costs...people gotta stop holding onto what they THINK is important and just try to embrace something new. People fear change.

Just like the gearheads of the 70s who wanted to keep holding onto their 5 MPG 400+ cubic inch 300 HP gas guzzling heavy cars with 950 double pumper carbs that ran 14s in the quarter mile and claimed that fuel injection would be the death of performance. Heck most of the people complaining about EVs don't even know what they're talking about. They just run around repeating what they think is the norm and rumors or misconceptions and have really no solid basis of info.

Technology moves on. ICEVs had their day and they are at their limits of performance, efficiency, etc. EVs are now taking center stage. And EVs are gonna utterly destroy ICEVs. A bone stock Plaid just embarrassed the crap out of a 1000 RWHP GT500 and without much effort either. So that right there tells you how "limited" our current performance is. Race a Tesla and I am telling you, not many people on this forum have anything that can hold a candle to them. Things are changing and that is just that.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Just like the gearheads of the 70s who wanted to keep holding onto their 5 MPG 400+ cubic inch 300 HP gas guzzling heavy cars with 950 double pumper carbs that ran 14s in the quarter mile and claimed that fuel injection would be the death of performance. Heck most of the people complaining about EVs don't even know what they're talking about. They just run around repeating what they think is the norm and rumors or misconceptions and have really no solid basis of info.

Technology moves on. ICEVs had their day and they are at their limits of performance, efficiency, etc. EVs are now taking center stage. And EVs are gonna utterly destroy ICEVs. A bone stock Plaid just embarrassed the crap out of a 1000 RWHP GT500 and without much effort either. So that right there tells you how "limited" our current performance is. Race a Tesla and I am telling you, not many people on this forum have anything that can hold a candle to them. Things are changing and that is just that.

I had a Tesla Model 3 Performance for a couple years. It is a great all around car, wicked quick off the line but it just didn't tug at the heartstrings for me like a V8 musclecar/sports coupe does. I sold it and bought a ZL1 about 3 months ago. For the record, my wife still has her Model 3 and it makes for a great daily driver, but when I am in the mood to really drive I take the ZL1 for a spin.
Maybe when Dodge and GM actually start releasing enthusiast focused EVs I will take notice but until then we are going to be stuck with pretty boring EVs to start.

You can see how long this transition is going to take by looking at the starting price of the Silverado EV. That truck is $105k plus destination and dealer fees assuming no dealer markup and it is scheduled for 2024. I think my first townhouse was $105k. It will take quite a while for GM and others to ramp up battery production and be able to profitable with $50k-$60k EV pickup trucks. I don't think we will see a sporty EV sedan for sometime since the sales numbers probably won't support such a vehicle yet. They will focus on the Blazer, Equinox and trucks, which is where all the money is.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Technology moves on. ICEVs had their day and they are at their limits of performance, efficiency, etc. EVs are now taking center stage. And EVs are gonna utterly destroy ICEVs. A bone stock Plaid just embarrassed the crap out of a 1000 RWHP GT500 and without much effort either. So that right there tells you how "limited" our current performance is. Race a Tesla and I am telling you, not many people on this forum have anything that can hold a candle to them. Things are changing and that is just that.

Well, if we talk about a road that has turns... the plaid does the ring in like 7:35 i think .. The LAST generation GT500 does the ring in 7:40

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...20Camaro%20ZL1.

I think it's amazing the plaid with > 1000hp, and a > 1g skid pad, can't get a better ring time! It must have terrible handling at the limit.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

You can see how long this transition is going to take by looking at the starting price of the Silverado EV. That truck is $105k plus destination and dealer fees assuming no dealer markup and it is scheduled for 2024. I think my first townhouse was $105k. It will take quite a while for GM and others to ramp up battery production and be able to profitable with $50k-$60k EV pickup trucks. I don't think we will see a sporty EV sedan for sometime since the sales numbers probably won't support such a vehicle yet. They will focus on the Blazer, Equinox and trucks, which is where all the money is.

The starting price is not $105K. It's $39.9K for the Work Truck. $105K is the loaded-to-the-brim, has EVERYTHING, First Edition RST. Just because it's the first ones out the door does not mean that the "starting price" is $105K.

GM has explicitly stated that they will have them optioned everywhere from $40K to $105K. It's safe to say that you, too, will be able to get one for $50-60K in the near future.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

The starting price is not $105K. It's $39.9K for the Work Truck. $105K is the loaded-to-the-brim, has EVERYTHING, First Edition RST. Just because it's the first ones out the door does not mean that the "starting price" is $105K.

GM has explicitly stated that they will have them optioned everywhere from $40K to $105K. It's safe to say that you, too, will be able to get one for $50-60K in the near future.

I know, my point is that unlike a C8 Corvette where you have the existing manufacturing and profitability to start with the lower end trim (Stingray) and then work your way up to higher end models with EVs GM needs to release $100k+ EV Hummers and Siverados in order to maintain profitability. Tesla had to do the same thing for many years selling very expensive Model S and X vehicles. The Model 3 was their first real EV for the masses and has actually just started making them profitable.

The work truck at $40k will be ordered as fleet vehicles by business customers. It will also cost more once they are equipped with the larger battery packs and options required by most businesses. The fuel and operation costs savings though should be significant so they won't care as long as the charging infrastructure is in place.

Even Tesla took down their CyberTruck pricing. They had that truck starting at $39k as well. Supposedly, they will only offer two model now, a Dual Motor and a Quad motor with 4 wheel steering. If they can somehow stay within even 5-10k of their originally announced pricing they will crush it. They have over 1.2M reservations for that crazy looking truck.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I know, my point is that unlike a C8 Corvette where you have the existing manufacturing and profitability to start with the lower end trim (Stingray) and then work your way up to higher end models with EVs GM needs to release $100k+ EV Hummers and Siverados in order to maintain profitability. Tesla had to do the same thing for many years selling very expensive Model S and X vehicles. The Model 3 was their first real EV for the masses and has actually just started making them profitable.

The work truck at $40k will be ordered as fleet vehicles by business customers. It will also cost more once they are equipped with the larger battery packs and options required by most businesses. The fuel and operation costs savings though should be significant so they won't care as long as the charging infrastructure is in place.

Even Tesla took down their CyberTruck pricing. They had that truck starting at $39k as well. Supposedly, they will only offer two model now, a Dual Motor and a Quad motor with 4 wheel steering. If they can somehow stay within even 5-10k of their originally announced pricing they will crush it. They have over 1.2M reservations for that crazy looking truck.

I think GM's approach to pricing the RST Launch Edition is to get the highest content / highest priced / highest profit units out first to build buzz and to get them into the hands of the ones willing to pay the big bucks to be first. But they also get the benefit of keeping volume fairly low while they ramp up to eventually hit full production volume. By then they will introduce the models priced between the $40k WT and the fully loaded RST.