Will A Tune Void My Warranty?

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by jon6.0

Yeah I know. I just check the codes every day to make sure it still just has the O2 codes set.

Good move. It would be easy for something to creep up.

[Snidely Whiplash]

1400 miles on the clock when Anthony at LGM put on my exhaust and got me an extra 40 RWHP. I put on a VMAX ported TB and a Halltech Yellow Jacket intake since then. It runs WAY better than stock.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash

1400 miles on the clock when Anthony at LGM put on my exhaust and got me an extra 40 RWHP. I put on a VMAX ported TB and a Halltech Yellow Jacket intake since then. It runs WAY better than stock.

[ForcFed93]

Originally Posted by markgws6

I'd just like to know if anyone on here has been denied an actual warranty repair because of a tune. It sounds like people have had the reverse experience and it would have to be something directly related to the tune, which I'm sure most of the "canned" tunes available have been tested against and will not cause problems. But I'd like anyone who has had a denial to speak up. I'm sure others are interested as well.

Here's the problem with tuning and warranties. Yes, the Magnuson-Moss act requires them to prove that the modification was the cause of the failure before denying the warranty claim.

However, since a tune changes nearly everything regarding powertrain control, they can simply state it was altered beyond design basis. You may know for certain that it was a faulty rod bolt that failed punching a hole in the side of your block, but what it boils down to is this; it's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court.

They're going to deny it even if you just had the rev limiter raised 200rpm. The reason? It would be a slam dunk to walk into a small claims court room and say "He/she altered the engine to run in a matter beyond design basis" Then they can provide a printout of the ECM data and walk out of the court room smiling while you're left crying.

[garyw]

Originally Posted by Sugarfree135

But does it save the date and time it was done or just that it was done? My thinking is that if you bought a used car you could argue the previous owner did it not you, as long as it's not time stamped.

doesnt matter. in that case, the guy b4 you killed the warranty, same as if he put on headers, super charger, cam cai whatever.

[markgws6]

Originally Posted by ForcFed93

Here's the problem with tuning and warranties. Yes, the Magnuson-Moss act requires them to prove that the modification was the cause of the failure before denying the warranty claim.

However, since a tune changes nearly everything regarding powertrain control, they can simply state it was altered beyond design basis. You may know for certain that it was a faulty rod bolt that failed punching a hole in the side of your block, but what it boils down to is this; it's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court.

They're going to deny it even if you just had the rev limiter raised 200rpm. The reason? It would be a slam dunk to walk into a small claims court room and say "He/she altered the engine to run in a matter beyond design basis" Then they can provide a printout of the ECM data and walk out of the court room smiling while you're left crying.

Maybe I should restate my question. (I was not meaning a denial for damage to something that (could have) been directly tune related like an over-rev condition. I mean, has anyone gone in for warranty work of ANY kind and been denied repair "because" of a tune, regardless of what the issue was or whether they paid to get it repaired? I just want to know the statistical numbers of people being denied repair work at the dealer because of a tune. I think our engine (LS3) is pretty stout out of the box but I have heard of two people on this forum already having engine problems and having to pay to get them fixed btw. One of them had his engine modified, rebuilt, and tuned (so he did not even try to get it fixed under warranty) and the other I forget if he was tuned or not but his engine broke at the track and I forget if his was tuned or not, but I don't think it was. Both were LS3 1LE cars like mine.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by markgws6

Maybe I should restate my question. (I was not meaning a denial for damage to something that (could have) been directly tune related like an over-rev condition. I mean, has anyone gone in for warranty work of ANY kind and been denied repair "because" of a tune, regardless of what the issue was or whether they paid to get it repaired? I just want to know the statistical numbers of people being denied repair work at the dealer because of a tune. I think our engine (LS3) is pretty stout out of the box but I have heard of two people on this forum already having engine problems and having to pay to get them fixed btw. One of them had his engine modified, rebuilt, and tuned (so he did not even try to get it fixed under warranty) and the other I forget if he was tuned or not but his engine broke at the track and I forget if his was tuned or not, but I don't think it was. Both were LS3 1LE cars like mine.

You will never be able to get any real data on that kind of thing. We are speaking specifically about the drive train warranty though. They can not refuse to replace something like an power window motor because you are tuned. That is where the Magnuson-Moss Act comes in.

[BigBlock69RS]

Originally Posted by ForcFed93

...You may know for certain that it was a faulty rod bolt that failed punching a hole in the side of your block, but what it boils down to is this; it's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court.

They're going to deny it even if you just had the rev limiter raised 200rpm. The reason? It would be a slam dunk to walk into a small claims court room and say "He/she altered the engine to run in a matter beyond design basis" Then they can provide a printout of the ECM data and walk out of the court room smiling while you're left crying.

Then you simply counter with the material and failure analysis of the rod bolt, that shows that no matter what was done to the car, failure of that bolt was going to happen. The failure was due to the bolt not being up to spec, not the tune. And make sure you either bring an expert to testify (we are talking the cost of a motor here) or an affidavit letter stating the same. Then list what was actually modified by the tune, and show that there little relation between the two.

You only need 51%. Do your homework, and if you really have some evidence, it won't be that hard to make that. Its not hopeless or impossible as you want to make it.

In fact the burden is on them to convince the judge why the warranty should not be honored, even a weak case may be enough to sway a judge to enforce the warranty, due the burden placed on the Warrantor.

Small Claims courts were setup for the little guy to prevail and they do everyday.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by strych9

That dealer is committing fraud. Good luck with that.

Many dealers commit fraud all the time... Unfortunately it's usually AGAINST the customer and not the manufacturer.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Many dealers commit fraud all the time... Unfortunately it's usually AGAINST the customer and not the manufacturer.

[Kendall421]

I am wanting to do more to my 14 1LE, but am confused on what I can and cannot do. I have CAI with Apex scoop and washer tank relocation. I have Apex catch can. I have Solo HF Cats sitting in a box next to the car. I was planning to order ARH Shorty headers and a ported TB (Bo's or V-Max). Doing bolt on's that hopefully avoid a tune.

I went to my local dealer where I have purchased 4 NEW cars in the last 6 years and inquired about what I could or could not do. The service manager told me that "anything I do that changes the air flow or volume of air going into or out of the engine will affect my warranty". I asked for better definition and he said that any engine or drivetrain failure that could come from air flow change or added power from the mods may not be covered. Kinda took the wind out of my sail! I may go talk to the GM of the dealership. But being Suburban and just one dealership in their huge collection of dealerships, they are all just employees with no stake in things.

I am thinking about talking to a couple other dealers in the area including Maureen at Rogers Chevrolet to get their view. I want to do these mods and if another dealer within an hour of me will work with me, they will get my business. Given I own 7 GM vehicles and 3 of which still have warranty left on them, I could switch all my service work to someone that wants to offer me superior customer support!

[vicnkathy]

Good luck. A tune will void your warrantee. It changes everything if done right or can destroy a motor if done wrong. If you modify these cars you take a chance. Understand that. It's not fair honestly to add more power in any vehicle, damage it and expect someone else to pay for it. Enjoy your car stock, or enjoy your car modified but be prepaired to pay to play.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Kendall421

I am wanting to do more to my 14 1LE, but am confused on what I can and cannot do. I have CAI with Apex scoop and washer tank relocation. I have Apex catch can. I have Solo HF Cats sitting in a box next to the car. I was planning to order ARH Shorty headers and a ported TB (Bo's or V-Max). Doing bolt on's that hopefully avoid a tune.

I went to my local dealer where I have purchased 4 NEW cars in the last 6 years and inquired about what I could or could not do. The service manager told me that "anything I do that changes the air flow or volume of air going into or out of the engine will affect my warranty". I asked for better definition and he said that any engine or drivetrain failure that could come from air flow change or added power from the mods may not be covered. Kinda took the wind out of my sail! I may go talk to the GM of the dealership. But being Suburban and just one dealership in their huge collection of dealerships, they are all just employees with no stake in things.

I am thinking about talking to a couple other dealers in the area including Maureen at Rogers Chevrolet to get their view. I want to do these mods and if another dealer within an hour of me will work with me, they will get my business. Given I own 7 GM vehicles and 3 of which still have warranty left on them, I could switch all my service work to someone that wants to offer me superior customer support!

The increased air flow from bolt on mods is not enough to cause an engine or drivetrain failure. The burden of proof would be on them if the claimed it did.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by vicnkathy

Good luck. A tune will void your warrantee. It changes everything if done right or can destroy a motor if done wrong. If you modify these cars you take a chance. Understand that. It's not fair honestly to add more power in any vehicle, damage it and expect someone else to pay for it. Enjoy your car stock, or enjoy your car modified but be prepaired to pay to play.

Yep you are right. My son had one one done on his 4th gen and it did not compensate correctly for the increased airflow of his CAI and headers with full dual exhaust with no mufflers or cats and burned up his motor from running too lean. Ever seen melted aluminum heads? Not pretty.