Looking for advice on getting new gears

[davidscamaro]

I'm wanting to upgrade to a 4.10 or 4.11 gear. Want to hear from the people that have done the mod. What is the best way to go. I want the strongest acceleration I can get with out risking weak gear from too small of a tooth

4.10 or 4.11?

What brand ?

Part number for ordering right ring and pinion for 2010,m6,ss

Thanks in advance for the help guys

[CamaroFred]

Originally Posted by davidscamaro

I'm wanting to upgrade to a 4.10 or 4.11 gear. Want to hear from the people that have done the mod. What is the best way to go. I want the strongest acceleration I can get with out risking weak gear from too small of a tooth

4.10 or 4.11?

What brand ?

Part number for ordering right ring and pinion for 2010,m6,ss

Thanks in advance for the help guys

4.10 Gears?

[mrvenicess]

3.91s direct from GM.

[Chris49066SS]

Fred gave a nice reference thread. Heres another one, showing how a guy wanted 3.91 then ended up going 4.10 very recently. He did Motive 4.10s. Andrew recommends the Motives for M6 cars over the Richmonds after he broke those. Heres that thread, and it has plenty of good reading and info

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...1#post10428201

[ZEN357]

Richmond Gear. I'd go with 4.11's if you have a six speed manual.

[bkevind]

I had 4.11 from Yukon put in.

It's not a big performance difference from my perception, to my stock 3.91. Not nearly enough to justify the cost. A bigger difference can be had by going with a smaller diameter tire. I think it must be a much bigger difference with the shorter trans gears that are in the SS vs the 1LE.

The Yukon's are a bit noisy. The shop installed, drove, checked again, drove and rechecked again. They do a lot of diffs, so we're confident in the set of the ring/pinion.

It's hard to say how noisy the Yukon 4.11 in my car is vs the original because...

**The rest of this is irrelevant to just a gearing change, but is why my diff now sounds like a jet airliner taking off**

At the same time we put in a Truetrac which was the reason for opening the diff (original was toast). While we were in there, figured might as well fit 4.10 or 4.11, added a LPW diff cover, solid cradle bushings, and BMR poly/delrin diff bushings.

The solid and poly bushings plus the LPW diff cover amplify every little noise the diff makes inside the cabin, a LOT. On the road course the noise is not noticeable, but driving on the street to get to the road course...it's borderline unbearable for long stints of time on the highway.

However, with that combination of things, shifting is rock solid and tight now (unexpected benefit!) and the rear end feels amazing under power. If it wasn't so noisy I'd recommend all the things for everyone. But those big rubber OEM bushings serve a much needed purpose in noise isolation. Metal on metal mounted race car noises are just no fun unless you're on a race track

[sixty9fordkiller]

M10 + 3.91gears + 26" tire = shoot out the hole like a bat outta hell

car looks a little funny but the combination works

[pnwdan]

Originally Posted by bkevind

I had 4.11 from Yukon put in.

It's not a big performance difference from my perception, to my stock 3.91. Not nearly enough to justify the cost. A bigger difference can be had by going with a smaller diameter tire. I think it must be a much bigger difference with the shorter trans gears that are in the SS vs the 1LE.

The Yukon's are a bit noisy. The shop installed, drove, checked again, drove and rechecked again. They do a lot of diffs, so we're confident in the set of the ring/pinion.

It's hard to say how noisy the Yukon 4.11 in my car is vs the original because...

**The rest of this is irrelevant to just a gearing change, but is why my diff now sounds like a jet airliner taking off**

At the same time we put in a Truetrac which was the reason for opening the diff (original was toast). While we were in there, figured might as well fit 4.10 or 4.11, added a LPW diff cover, solid cradle bushings, and BMR poly/delrin diff bushings.

The solid and poly bushings plus the LPW diff cover amplify every little noise the diff makes inside the cabin, a LOT. On the road course the noise is not noticeable, but driving on the street to get to the road course...it's borderline unbearable for long stints of time on the highway.

However, with that combination of things, shifting is rock solid and tight now (unexpected benefit!) and the rear end feels amazing under power. If it wasn't so noisy I'd recommend all the things for everyone. But those big rubber OEM bushings serve a much needed purpose in noise isolation. Metal on metal mounted race car noises are just no fun unless you're on a race track

Your 1LE came with 3.91 and as you stated is geared different in the transmission. You went to 4.11. The comparable swap on an SS is going from 3.45 to a 3.91. I am looking to do the gear swap as well for my SS M6 and from what Ive been reading, with a cam swap that I plan I should go straight to the 4.10/4.11

[acammer]

Originally Posted by davidscamaro

I'm wanting to upgrade to a 4.10 or 4.11 gear. Want to hear from the people that have done the mod. What is the best way to go. I want the strongest acceleration I can get with out risking weak gear from too small of a tooth

4.10 or 4.11?

What brand ?

Part number for ordering right ring and pinion for 2010,m6,ss

Thanks in advance for the help guys

A 4.10 is absolutely a great modification for an M6 car. It's in my top 4 list for first mods that guys should consider - headers, tune, 4.10s, solid rear sub-frame bushings. Nothing less than a 4.10 makes sense for an all motor M6 car, and coming from the stock 3.45 ratio it makes a profound difference.

I've done a fair bit of research about which gear set to get. As Chris49066SS pointed out I had a set of Richmond 4.10's in my car. They had probably 20-30k miles on them (I bought the whole rear-end as a take-out from another car) and ended up with a pretty nasty failure where I ripped a few teeth off the ring gear. I couldn't find a probably with wear, everything looked good in the diff other than the failed ring gear. If you dig around enough you'll find that there we a lot of early Richmond 4.10 failures. They made some revisions to the gears - but I'm not sure they get much love from anybody anymore.

From that research I essentially found that Motive has been the go-to for 4.10 gears. Several of the fast all motor guys (Billy Sharps, Bo White, Ben Weishaar) are cutting pretty strong 60' times over and over on their Motive 4.10 setups without any failure issues. Most of those guys do report some degree of noise. If you do diff bushings and subframe bushings you'll definitely amplify any diff noise you have. An LPW cover (a good idea for keeping the diff in 1 piece) may add even more noise with the load bolts right down on the main caps.

I'd love to tell you I knew of a 4.10 ratio that was nice and quiet and would hold up to hard use, but I haven't found it. For me, the noise is a secondary (but real) concern, so I continue to choose Motive until I learn of another gear that can offer their reputation for taking those hard launches AND be nice and quiet.

But - definitely the way to go with any all motor M6 combo. Anything less is leaving performance on the table. You don't take much of a hit in MPG, the car is easier to launch, makes better trap speed, etc.

[davidscamaro]

Thanks guys for the advice, think for sure I'm going to go with the motive 4.10 for my gear swap

If any one has the part numbers for the set and install kit that would be greatly appreciated

[bkevind]

Originally Posted by pnwdan

Your 1LE came with 3.91 and as you stated is geared different in the transmission. You went to 4.11. The comparable swap on an SS is going from 3.45 to a 3.91. I am looking to do the gear swap as well for my SS M6 and from what Ive been reading, with a cam swap that I plan I should go straight to the 4.10/4.11

Yep, I know apples to oranges for this post but just wanted to share my experience in general.

Of note, the SS/1LE diff is pretty small - 4.11 is the biggest ring that could fit in it.

for me personally with the 1LE trans, I should have saved the cost of parts and labor that I put into my diff and put it towards a full upgrade diff - G-Force for example, with something like a 4.30 r&p. But it's done for now, noise and all will run it till it breaks.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by bkevind

Yep, I know apples to oranges for this post but just wanted to share my experience in general.

Of note, the SS/1LE diff is pretty small - 4.11 is the biggest ring that could fit in it.

for me personally with the 1LE trans, I should have saved the cost of parts and labor that I put into my diff and put it towards a full upgrade diff - G-Force for example, with something like a 4.30 r&p. But it's done for now, noise and all will run it till it breaks.

I agree - I've rebuilt mine 3x now once I get it finished (for what better be the last time) this spring. I could have done a Lingenfelter with a 4.56, axles and driveshaft for $5500 - I'm well on my way to that amount at this point.

I still think, for what it's worth, a 4.10 is worth it even in a 1LE car. In fact, I think it's more important because of the longer gears - from a drag race perspective the 1LE (MM6) trans is really at a disadvantage to the regular SS (M10) trans in the first three gears and needs all the help it can get.

My ideal setup for an all motor car (that'll I'll never spend the money on) would be a MM6 trans with a 4.56 rear on a 28". Nice spacing on the ratios, aggressive enough 1st gear for drag launches, and over 6500rpm through the traps.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by bkevind

Of note, the SS/1LE diff is pretty small - 4.11 is the biggest ring that could fit in it.

It's not really commonly known, but Richmond had a 4.33 ratio available for a very limited time. US Gear was going to make a 4.56 rear end for these cars, but apparently there was insufficient interest. Too bad, I want one!

[Chris49066SS]

Originally Posted by acammer

It's not really commonly known, but Richmond had a 4.33 ratio available for a very limited time. US Gear was going to make a 4.56 rear end for these cars, but apparently there was insufficient interest. Too bad, I want one!

I thought the 4.56 is what you could fit into the S60 rearend, right? Why not a transbraked TH400 with a 9" and reeeeally sticky tires and a wheelie bar, Andrew? Its only $$$$$