04-19-2009, 02:21 PM | #29 | |
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But I do have a quick question. 6000+ seems like a lot for a single turbo, but i believe it. What I want to know is how much HP and torque gain do you think we will see? Because it better be more than enough to get faster than the SS, since the price difference between the two engines is smaller than that turbo cost...
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04-19-2009, 03:48 PM | #30 | |
Drives: Hyundai Sonata Join Date: Feb 2009
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And CobaltSS, the DI does NOT, repeat, does NOT inject fuel during the compression stroke. Do a little research before spreading false information on these boards. It injects it during the intake stroke, just like a normal engine. Taken from http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...19/313350.html: A diesel, however, DOES inject the fuel near the TDC of the compression stroke. The reason gasoline engines, including the 3.6DI, don't do this is because of the rate at which gasoline burns. Gasoline burns much quicker than heavier diesel fuel. If you were to inject it at TDC, where the air is extremely compressed and HOT, you would probably spontaneously ignite the gasoline. This results in an EXPLOSION, also called detonation. Everyone knows this is bad. In a gasoline engine, you want an extremely rapid, but CONTROLLED burn. Not an explosion. Thus, the only thing the new V6 has in common with a diesel is the fact that the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder. Absolutely. Nothing. Else. Edit: Well crap, I tried to embed the animation so everyone wouldn't have to click on the link, but I couldn't get it to work. Sorry guys. |
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04-19-2009, 05:02 PM | #31 | |
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Your explanation still doesn't explain why the DI motors use high PRESSURE fuel injectors on the same levels as DIESEL engines. Speed is not the issue. Quite a bit of engine power is used to attain that level of fuel pressure. Why do that when you don't need to? |
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04-19-2009, 05:28 PM | #32 | |||
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Now, keeping in mind that water doesn't compress this makes the analogy less pertinent. However the fact remains that the "lag" is negligible for the average rear-mount setup over a traditional manifold. Quote:
I will expand on the point he is trying to make though. Using smaller charge piping will decrease the efficiency of your turbo. So when you're at the strip and pulling 25 PSI on your next 9-second run you probably won't be able to (it's so hard to truly type sarcastically, but that was as close as I can make it). The point is, you don't run a rear-mount in hopes of making huge numbers usually. Most people who are seriously making a racing build will build the manifold for the turbo. Rear-mounts are practically bolt-ons, there's no reason to worry about making the pipes >3" and you could get away with 2.5" charge piping just fine with a medium sized turbo making ~15 PSI. Wow. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you have a major typo and don't actually believe what you just wrote. I'll let you fix it, but in the meantime, anyone who is looking for valid information on turbocharging do NOT read this man's post. |
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04-19-2009, 07:52 PM | #33 | ||||||
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it wont be for a single turbo. more than likely it will be for a TT setup. similar to the vette setup. and priced accordingly. Quote:
as for why DI motors use high press fuel injectors, its because they are in the combustion chamber, not in the intake manifold. what does this mean? basically that the injector has to be able to withstand the immense compression of the cylinder and still be able to spray the fuel and atomize it properly in a given amount of time.
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04-19-2009, 08:37 PM | #34 | ||
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a. has no idea what he is talking about b. has no idea that he doesn't know what he is talking about c. is feeling really silly right now d. wishing he never posted on this thread.
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04-19-2009, 11:02 PM | #35 | |
Drives: 96 Bronco w/ a 5 speed Join Date: Mar 2007
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They mention about half way down that the computer opens the throttle wider in the first mode (Stratified Charge Mode) to reduce pumping losses. The higher pressure should also produce smaller droplets which would in turn provide more cooling of the air (actually just faster, but time is limited). |
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04-20-2009, 09:51 AM | #36 |
Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS Join Date: Sep 2008
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Well one thing that is 100% clear from this post: Many people don't fully understand turbos, and maybe moreso on the STS's.
I still think the STS looks pretty good for a bolt on set-up. Despite the long routing, it does appear to be easier to set up for a street application. Watching an install video, it appears to be something doable in a garage over a weekend. |
04-20-2009, 12:09 PM | #37 |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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I really like the STS setup. Clearly, its not the ideal system for a racecar...but how many people build honest-to goodness racecars, anyways?
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04-20-2009, 12:30 PM | #38 |
Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS Join Date: Sep 2008
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04-20-2009, 12:43 PM | #39 |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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Tuche...
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04-20-2009, 05:23 PM | #40 |
Drives: 02 WS6 TA, 88 Fiero Formula Join Date: Aug 2008
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touché <--- sorry
So do the GM DI motors use the Bosch system? Or the Mitsubishi system? Or a proprietary one? Something else? Pretty neat tech write up though Grape Ape, thanks for that. So it can both fire during the compression, the intake or a mixture of the two, or both. Crazy. |
04-21-2009, 10:25 AM | #41 | |
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Usually a 50% increase in power across the board, so somewhere around 400-450 at the crank. It could be potentially more or less depending on how agressive a setup is built. You got to pay to play. The more power you want the more it costs. You figure a Garret GT30 Turbo costs around 1500-2000 dollars, and it's one of the more popular turbo upgrades nowadays in addition to gt35r http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/p...roducts_id=695 Sample of an upgrade for the Mazdaspeed3. I'm not too familiar with 6 cylinder turbo setups personally, but previous posts are correct, in that most kits will more than likely be twins, and small snails too. Most of the 350Z kits are twinsetups, but I'm sure some people WILL make singles for those on a budget or want big power from a big turbo instead of two little pea shooters. Sample of a Single Turbo Kit for a v6 from a good turbo company: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/produc...category_id=65 Here's a Twin Kit, not sure of the pricing but on another site it was close to 8k: http://www.airpowersystems.com/350z/350z_tt_tuner.htm Notice they get almost double the stock output. |
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04-21-2009, 02:14 PM | #42 | |||
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everyone might talk about how they would like to build a race car or how they turned a wrench on one or two or that have taken their bolt-on car to the track once or twice, but there arent a lot of members out here who have built their cars into full/near-full race cars.
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