V8 Camaro SeaFoam Top-end Cleaning Method - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

kingbow · 03-26-2016, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell James

Check your oil, I'll bet it's black as coal.

If you did a proper top engine clean, where did that gunk go? Some burned off, some is in the oil.

No way would I drive another 800 miles with crud in the oil. But that's just me.

I'll do a check on my engine oil in 100 miles and see if its black. If it is I'll pay for a change then.

But yep, getting a catch can this week

clarkkent · 03-28-2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell James

I think that's over thinking it.

What has always worked good for me... Put a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner in a full tank of fuel. Drive that tank till near empty flooring it a few times.

Refill with premium, change the oil. Take the throttle body off and wipe any carbon built up off with carb cleaner. Done.

I'd rather not flood an engine all at once with a cleaner. I can't imagine how that is good for things. Going in through the fuel system over a tank full of fuel seems to work just fine. And...best way to clean a throttle body... is take it off and clean it. Quite easy to remove.

Having the fuel system cleaner in the tank is good to clean part of the intake runners and the valves, but this doesn't clean the upper runners or intake manifold. That's why you would use this procedure to clean the upper parts of the engine.

Elite Engineering · 03-28-2016, 12:30 PM

Russel James is 100% correct.

Anytime your using a solvent based cleaner, a good portion gets past the rings and into the crankcase oil. As Russel James correctly points out, this solvent is also bringing with it very abrasive soot/carbon/and ash deposits with it. Also, if you go to BG's website, they claim "up to 50%" of the deposits may be cleaned with an application. And we have to make sure we are talking Port injection (like the LS3 and L99 up to 2015) and not the new LT based GDI V8's.....and all GM V6 3.6L since 2008. For 2016 and up all GM gasoline engines are now GDI and you do NOT want to use any solvent based cleaner if over 10-15k miles due to the very hard abrasive make up of the deposits. We have yet to see any w/out scouring to the pistons and cylinder walls when performed on a GDI engine. Just as adding some sand to your intake would (the deposits once established on a GDI valve are baked on and crystalline and just as abrasive as sand).

Then we look at any turbo applications like GM's 2.0T L4 engine. The deposits when broken loose impact the leading edges of the hot side turbine causing damage. And that's not to mention all the smoke you see exiting the exhaust pipes? This big slug of solvent and loosened hard carbon when it hits the red hot catalyst substrate can cause it to fracture and then vibrate sideways and clog flow. For port injection engines the carbon your cleaning is soft and rarely will cause damage unless you do NOT immediately change oil afterwards. Just do a Google search on all the turned rod bearings on LLT and LFX engines after a GM dealer did a upper induction cleaning and did not change the oil.

We need to understand, most companies selling these upper induction cleaners sell nothing but these products, and they were fine for the port injection engine for decades, and now they face not only greatly reduced demand for them as consumers become educated (Russel James is just using common sense...think about it) so their lively hood is at stake. Never before have they made such a push into the dealers to use these and the damage they may cause to a GDI engine has been squashed. Only companies like Amsoil, etc. where their core products are high quality synthetic lubricants are they looking at a better system to deal with these deposits that uses air/oil separation and a cleaner at the proper intervals for a "life of vehicle" solution.

No deposits form on port injection valves, only the tops of pistons and in the ring lands/grooves and the combustion chamber. And it is a soft carbon due to the temps being far lower than GDI valves, etc.

The only real "safe" cleaning for a GDI engine is manually and done properly.

CRC makes their version with spray nozzle so the valves can be closed on a specific cylinder and then spray and soak them to soften and loosen over say 20-30 minutes. Then break away and suck out the larger deposits with a final compressed air shot to remove all debris. Repeat a few times for stubborn deposits and a shotgun cleaning brush set can be used to scrub all deposits loose. It can be used like SeaFoam or BG or Amsoil's as well introduced while running, but done manually very little gets past the rings as the engine is not running with pressure forcing it past the rings, and manually you actually see each valve up close and can see once they are clean and deposit free (for GDI engines).

All of this is mostly prevented if a proper truly effective catchcan is installed from the start. For Port Injection engines the original E1 and E2 cans are a good choice, for GDI engines that cannot tolerate any oil ingestion, only the E2-X line will stop nearly all of these compounds. 2-3 times what the average "catchcan" traps. The past year we have made this or focus with the new technology GDI now brings to most all vehicles sold today, and so little accurate info available on them for the general public to learn. Plenty of "spin" by the PR talking heads, but no automakers being accurate and totally truthful to date.

03-28-2016, 12:30 PM	#17
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,381	Russel James is 100% correct. Anytime your using a solvent based cleaner, a good portion gets past the rings and into the crankcase oil. As Russel James correctly points out, this solvent is also bringing with it very abrasive soot/carbon/and ash deposits with it. Also, if you go to BG's website, they claim "up to 50%" of the deposits may be cleaned with an application. And we have to make sure we are talking Port injection (like the LS3 and L99 up to 2015) and not the new LT based GDI V8's.....and all GM V6 3.6L since 2008. For 2016 and up all GM gasoline engines are now GDI and you do NOT want to use any solvent based cleaner if over 10-15k miles due to the very hard abrasive make up of the deposits. We have yet to see any w/out scouring to the pistons and cylinder walls when performed on a GDI engine. Just as adding some sand to your intake would (the deposits once established on a GDI valve are baked on and crystalline and just as abrasive as sand). Then we look at any turbo applications like GM's 2.0T L4 engine. The deposits when broken loose impact the leading edges of the hot side turbine causing damage. And that's not to mention all the smoke you see exiting the exhaust pipes? This big slug of solvent and loosened hard carbon when it hits the red hot catalyst substrate can cause it to fracture and then vibrate sideways and clog flow. For port injection engines the carbon your cleaning is soft and rarely will cause damage unless you do NOT immediately change oil afterwards. Just do a Google search on all the turned rod bearings on LLT and LFX engines after a GM dealer did a upper induction cleaning and did not change the oil. We need to understand, most companies selling these upper induction cleaners sell nothing but these products, and they were fine for the port injection engine for decades, and now they face not only greatly reduced demand for them as consumers become educated (Russel James is just using common sense...think about it) so their lively hood is at stake. Never before have they made such a push into the dealers to use these and the damage they may cause to a GDI engine has been squashed. Only companies like Amsoil, etc. where their core products are high quality synthetic lubricants are they looking at a better system to deal with these deposits that uses air/oil separation and a cleaner at the proper intervals for a "life of vehicle" solution. No deposits form on port injection valves, only the tops of pistons and in the ring lands/grooves and the combustion chamber. And it is a soft carbon due to the temps being far lower than GDI valves, etc. The only real "safe" cleaning for a GDI engine is manually and done properly. CRC makes their version with spray nozzle so the valves can be closed on a specific cylinder and then spray and soak them to soften and loosen over say 20-30 minutes. Then break away and suck out the larger deposits with a final compressed air shot to remove all debris. Repeat a few times for stubborn deposits and a shotgun cleaning brush set can be used to scrub all deposits loose. It can be used like SeaFoam or BG or Amsoil's as well introduced while running, but done manually very little gets past the rings as the engine is not running with pressure forcing it past the rings, and manually you actually see each valve up close and can see once they are clean and deposit free (for GDI engines). All of this is mostly prevented if a proper truly effective catchcan is installed from the start. For Port Injection engines the original E1 and E2 cans are a good choice, for GDI engines that cannot tolerate any oil ingestion, only the E2-X line will stop nearly all of these compounds. 2-3 times what the average "catchcan" traps. The past year we have made this or focus with the new technology GDI now brings to most all vehicles sold today, and so little accurate info available on them for the general public to learn. Plenty of "spin" by the PR talking heads, but no automakers being accurate and totally truthful to date.