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Old 06-18-2009, 02:17 PM   #15
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Well if sales don't pick up, no one is going to be doing well. It won't just be Ford that is hurting. Yes it is true that normally in bankruptcy since they mortgaged their assets their creditors get them, but as we saw with Chrysler and GM the government will intervene. I can't imagine the current administration having a total change of heart and deciding to go hands off. There are two outcomes: the market recovers soon and Ford takes advantage of its government-free (relatively) position and to gain favor with consumers and market share and use that to pay back the loans, or the market doesn't recover and they end up with GM and Chrysler, just a few months behind. Nothing really too earth-shaking with either position. Obviously the former is preferable.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:27 PM   #16
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Keep dreaming guys. Strictly speaking from an economic perspective, GM and Chrysler are still in a far more dire set of circumstances than Ford. Focusing on GM, if they make it through bankruptcy they will leave with more debt than Ford possesses right now, believe it. And if Ford does indeed end up begging on their knees due to further economic hardship, you can believe that the odds of GM making it through Chapter 11 bankruptcy just slipped to a million to one shot.

This CNN article assumes a great deal, particularly as regards GM and Chrysler, and it assumes that virtually all of it if not all of it will work. That makes for a lot of assumptions. Guys, stop setting yourself up for disappointment. I have been telling people for years now that GM was almost assured of ending up in bankruptcy court. It happened. I likewise told them that Ford's financial plan to keep the company flush with cash made more sense in every respect and seemed very solid. It was and because of this Ford isn't kneeling next to GM in front of the Obama brigade. And now I am here telling you that Ford is still in far better shape economically and seems unlikely to end up in the shape that GM is in at the moment.
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:06 AM   #17
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Keep dreaming guys. Strictly speaking from an economic perspective, GM and Chrysler are still in a far more dire set of circumstances than Ford. Focusing on GM, if they make it through bankruptcy they will leave with more debt than Ford possesses right now, believe it. And if Ford does indeed end up begging on their knees due to further economic hardship, you can believe that the odds of GM making it through Chapter 11 bankruptcy just slipped to a million to one shot.

This CNN article assumes a great deal, particularly as regards GM and Chrysler, and it assumes that virtually all of it if not all of it will work. That makes for a lot of assumptions. Guys, stop setting yourself up for disappointment. I have been telling people for years now that GM was almost assured of ending up in bankruptcy court. It happened. I likewise told them that Ford's financial plan to keep the company flush with cash made more sense in every respect and seemed very solid. It was and because of this Ford isn't kneeling next to GM in front of the Obama brigade. And now I am here telling you that Ford is still in far better shape economically and seems unlikely to end up in the shape that GM is in at the moment.


Wow so you are smarter than many economist that have been saying different than you. People that are actually paid for that job, instead of you who are specultaing from the outside. Look right now Ford has 32 billion in debt. After the bankruptcy GM will have only 17 billion in debt...lol only. How is that more than Ford has. Ford is not making money just like none of the others are. They arent selling cars and profits are down just like everyone elses are. So if they are in debt, not making money, all profits are down, and are still spending money hand over fist how in the hell do you expect them to be any better than the rest of ALL the other automakers. Not just the American makers but all of them. If things dont turn around for all the auto industry Ford will be in the same situation as GM, and Chrysler. Hell many of the foreign makers are getting money from their own goverments, or have been for years. Look at Toyota. That company had the Prius bought and paid for by their goverment. You keep living in your dream world where Ford is a ok. Hate to tell you a lil secret...none of the automakers are ok. So wake up and see what is really going on around you. The auto industry is in a world of sh%t and none of them are safe and sound.

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Old 06-19-2009, 11:13 AM   #18
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IMO, Ford is in better shape than GM and Chrysler. Will they have to go the Chapter 11 route? Dunno, lets see how it plays out.

I fear for Ford having to compete against Fiat and Government Motors, tho, I hope they don't get "punished" for being more fiscally responsible.
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:13 AM   #19
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As the saying goes, you make your own luck. I'm not some big Ford apologist, but at least they foresaw what was coming. I don't think anyone thought it would last this long though.
It's 100% impossible that they thought this would happen. They were working on restructuring and revamping their lineup looonggg before fall of 2008. Like 2 years before. So unless they've got a crystal ball, it really was just luck caused by their other circumstances.
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Well if sales don't pick up, no one is going to be doing well. It won't just be Ford that is hurting. Yes it is true that normally in bankruptcy since they mortgaged their assets their creditors get them, but as we saw with Chrysler and GM the government will intervene. I can't imagine the current administration having a total change of heart and deciding to go hands off. There are two outcomes: the market recovers soon and Ford takes advantage of its government-free (relatively) position and to gain favor with consumers and market share and use that to pay back the loans, or the market doesn't recover and they end up with GM and Chrysler, just a few months behind. Nothing really too earth-shaking with either position. Obviously the former is preferable.
Agreed. Although I honestly see the latter happening. I don't know how much cash they have but if this economic downturn lasts another year or so like it probably will, I'm pretty sure they'll run out. And when the economy does start looking up, cars will be towards the end of the list of things to buy for most people. The small stuff will be first and they'll work their way up to the big ticket items.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:43 PM   #20
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IMO, Ford is in better shape than GM and Chrysler. Will they have to go the Chapter 11 route? Dunno, lets see how it plays out.

I fear for Ford having to compete against Fiat and Government Motors, tho, I hope they don't get "punished" for being more fiscally responsible.


That is a misconception. They are in the same boat with the other two. They got loans against everything they had. They are in no means in great fisical shape. They arent more responsible than either GM or Chrysler. They just started an overhual before GM/Chrysler and were able to get loans before the bottom fell out. This is the only reason Ford as of "yet" hasnt had to borrow from the goverment. If the economy keeps up the way its going for the next year, then Ford will be at the goverment loans line as well. This is from several different economist all saying the same thing about Ford. From the outlook of most economist the economy isnt going to be in a great place for a few years either. Cars are low on a list of items being bought. If this trend keeps up as is predicted, then Ford will be in the same postion as the rest. Just about a year behind.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:49 PM   #21
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you don't need to look at it from an economic perspective even. i can see where you argument comes from just looking at Ford's balance sheet. however, we don't know enough information or have gone through enough quarters to know if they will run out of cash. if they can keep their cash and cash equivalents where they are, if they can keep paying on their long term debt (i don't know the term length) and if they can start reporting positive net income before the end of next year, then there is a fair chance they can pay down their long term debt. it is very possible, but you are right, currently their financial position, from a balance sheet perspective, is not strong. however, investors are betting (their stock price is up despite their balance sheet) that given enough time and effective management, it can attain a cash flow position that will allow them to pay down their debt more quickly and work towards a profitable long term position
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:51 PM   #22
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Just remember that American people work for Ford as well as the other auto makers, plus the suppliers and the list goes on. While I do not like Ford, I do not want them to fail to much is at stake for alot of common everyday people like us. I would rather push a Chevy than Drive a Ford has always been my Motto, plus its a good bumper sticker. I think the competition is good but just think it would snowball if they fail.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:18 PM   #23
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you don't need to look at it from an economic perspective even. i can see where you argument comes from just looking at Ford's balance sheet. however, we don't know enough information or have gone through enough quarters to know if they will run out of cash. if they can keep their cash and cash equivalents where they are, if they can keep paying on their long term debt (i don't know the term length) and if they can start reporting positive net income before the end of next year, then there is a fair chance they can pay down their long term debt. it is very possible, but you are right, currently their financial position, from a balance sheet perspective, is not strong. however, investors are betting (their stock price is up despite their balance sheet) that given enough time and effective management, it can attain a cash flow position that will allow them to pay down their debt more quickly and work towards a profitable long term position


Yep very true on your point as well. Only problem with this is they arent bringing in enough cash flow to sustain and cash flow is mostly outgoing not incomng. They are on a loss like everyone else, but you are right in the long term it is still up in the air. Hopefully it turns around sooner than later for all, but personally I dont see it happening in the next year. I think this is gonna be a long ride for all.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:29 PM   #24
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I do hope Ford makes it. You never want to see a company go bankrupt because so many people are ruined financially. However, bankruptcy did allow GM and Chrysler to deal with a number of key problems quickly and efficiently, and it is a problem for Ford to have to deal with those problems without bankruptcy. They could be at a disadvantage. Either way, it is not puppies and sunshine ahead for Ford. I wish them the best.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:44 PM   #25
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IMO, Ford is in better shape than GM and Chrysler. Will they have to go the Chapter 11 route? Dunno, lets see how it plays out.

I fear for Ford having to compete against Fiat and Government Motors, tho, I hope they don't get "punished" for being more fiscally responsible.
That is a very temporary situation. Once GM and Chrysler come out of bankruptcy, they will be leaner and meaner and Ford will be the one at a disadvantage.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:26 PM   #26
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Wow so you are smarter than many economist that have been saying different than you. People that are actually paid for that job, instead of you who are specultaing from the outside. Look right now Ford has 32 billion in debt. After the bankruptcy GM will have only 17 billion in debt...lol only. How is that more than Ford has. Ford is not making money just like none of the others are. They arent selling cars and profits are down just like everyone elses are. So if they are in debt, not making money, all profits are down, and are still spending money hand over fist how in the hell do you expect them to be any better than the rest of ALL the other automakers. Not just the American makers but all of them. If things dont turn around for all the auto industry Ford will be in the same situation as GM, and Chrysler. Hell many of the foreign makers are getting money from their own goverments, or have been for years. Look at Toyota. That company had the Prius bought and paid for by their goverment. You keep living in your dream world where Ford is a ok. Hate to tell you a lil secret...none of the automakers are ok. So wake up and see what is really going on around you. The auto industry is in a world of sh%t and none of them are safe and sound.
The folks writing articles like these aren't the only ones with a degree in economics. So yeah, given the drivel this chump is spouting I'm going to tell you he isn't qualified to run a lemonade stand. I might be a Ford fan, but I am so much more the staunch capitalist, and will always remain so. I wont sugarcoat the situation for any corporation, and Ford does indeed still face some tough times and continues to make some poor choices. That said, there is no comparison between the situation at Ford and the situation at GM, and were it possible whoever wrote this article should probably have his or her degree revoked, this brief synopsis of the situation really is that misguided (honestly I only read a portion of it as it only took a few sentences to realize the author is an utter moron with a very simplistic viewpoint regarding this situation)

Let me put it this way, as regards the financial state of GM I haven't been wrong yet....literally. Can you say the same for these guys?
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:01 PM   #27
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No one (that is smart) ever said Ford was safe. They just happened to get a loan at the right time to delay the inevitable. They will have to file for bankruptcy as well to shed dealers and contracts. Anyone who thinks differently is just fooling themselves.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:04 PM   #28
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I knew it! There was no reason that Ford could be doing better. They've been trying to cover their debt as part of a marketing strategy to be the last automaker standing in the US by allowing the other 2 to fail. It's evil genius at work!

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No this can't be!! Mullaly(sp?) is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I've heard all the Mustangs guys say it.
Some would say that sliced bread is overrated.
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