Camaro ZL1 Laps Nurburgring in 7:41.27. Enters Supercar Territory!!

[Amenti]

I don't care what any detractor says; that's a damned impressive time.

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

OR PERHAPS:






(sorry Dragoneye - had to 'borrow' this one....)


A couple of things:

1. -- stop reading into things

2. -- WHAT competitor?

3. -- (again) Let us all turn to the "thou shalt not" pages in the GT-500 owners manual.......and read in unison..............


The ZL1 will be thoughtfully priced. Keep in mind that it's a 'complete' car - there aren't a lot of options available..........

..........then - let's review the list of cars that have established times at the 'ring..............and you tell ME at what price point the car should be listed........ (no pulling the number out of the air -- or somewhere else ) -- think about the performance - the value - the standard features...........

If you were responsible for the shareholders of General Motors (....and that's YOU, by the way....) - how would YOU price it????

I don't think this is what people want to hear .. Will the car be given away .. I'm sure it won't .. however I believe a lot of folks were looking at a price range within the current GT500 pricing .. I'd say 50 - 60k .. since you say there isn't a lot of options .. I'm guessing 55k - 60k range ..

I would say this wouldn't be unreasonable for the car .. however I think expectations and reality is going to bum a lot of people out ...

Crowley

[Mikamaro]

Wow! It's hard for me to think right now...my brain does not compute.
I'm only thinking one thing right now. How can I get my hand on it.

[b4z]

Keep in mind that the ZL1 and ZR1 have something that weighs about 100lbs in the car that doesn't help handling.
The little matter of the supercharger and intercooler may help on the straights but not so much in the corners.
if you look at the Z06 w/ Z07 stuff it is only 3 seconds slower than the ZR1 which has a 133hp more.
The fact that Chevy has figured out how to get this front heavy cars around the ring so well is a testament to what they have learned about suspensions.
I would expect that if Chevy does build a Z28 and puts a N/A LS7 in it it may very well be marginally quicker around a roac course than the ZL1.

[Blown355]

GM cannot be that stupid. To throw another $60k car into an already saturated market. (proof being that I was offered $10k off a new Grand Sport vette last month). No one asked for a $60k car. If true, they just pissed off 80% of their sales base! So, Camaro owners still don't have an answer for the GT500. That is what we have been begging for!!

I'll still get one, I'll just wait till late next year when sales are about 1/4 what GM expected them to be, and get one with an incentive.

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by Blown355

GM cannot be that stupid. To throw another $60k car into an already saturated market. (proof being that I was offeded $10k off a new Grand Sport vette last month). No one asked for a $60k car. If true, they just pissed off 80% of their sales base! So, Camaro owners still don't have an answer for the GT500. That is what we have been begging for!!

I'll still get one, I'll just wait till late next year when sales are about 1/4 what GM expected them to be, and get with with an incentive.

If it is 60k .. we may be talking more ... LOL

I'd say no one panic though .. Hopefully we have pricing soon enough!

Crowley

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Blown355

GM cannot be that stupid. To throw another $60k car into an already saturated market. (proof being that I was offeded $10k off a new Grand Sport vette last month). No one asked for a $60k car. If true, they just pissed off 80% of their sales base! So, Camaro owners still don't have an answer for the GT500. That is what we have been begging for!!

I'll still get one, I'll just wait till late next year when sales are about 1/4 what GM expected them to be, and get with with an incentive.

I don't know that I'd consider GM being stupid given this senario (as much as I'm affraid it will turn out to be what happens...). It's my opinion that they're targetting the uber-CAMARO enthusiast with ZL1. They know they have to sell so many. They know what profit margins they have to meet. They know many of us have been waiting and drooling over this car (or what I thought was going to actually be Z28). GM doesn't want to piss anyone off. GM wants to sell cars. I think perhaps they believe (at least I do) that a true CAMARO fanatic would take "X" amount of money, that could easily buy a 'Vette, and go straight to ZL1, which can perform on par with an entry-level 'Vette. If I had the money, that's what I'd do. I'm so CAMARO-crazy that if I had the $120K for a ZR1, I'd walk right by it, and jump into ZL1 and tell the dealer to keep the rest of the money. That's how crazy I am. While I'm at the extreme, I think, perhaps, that's kinda' along similar lines to what GM might be thinking. They see a person like me, who doesn't car that 'Vette might perform a little better at the same price, but knows I'll still go right to CAMARO ZL1.

I totally get what you're saying, and I'm probably trying to spin my theories to make them more palatable for me to accept, but that's where I'm at and what I have to do to keep my cool. Let's not get crazy yet though. GM hasn't announced pricing and if we wig-out for the next month until that's announced, we aren't going to get anywhere. All I'm asking is we try to keep out heads, and keep our faith with GM. They know we know they're a value brand and that they want to give us the most for our money. I know CAMARO, and ZL1 is part of that formula. Why are they going to build a car they can't sell?

JMVHO

Originally Posted by Crowley

I don't think this is what people want to hear .. Will the car be given away .. I'm sure it won't .. however I believe a lot of folks were looking at a price range within the current GT500 pricing .. I'd say 50 - 60k .. since you say there isn't a lot of options .. I'm guessing 55k - 60k range ..

I would say this wouldn't be unreasonable for the car .. however I think expectations and reality is going to bum a lot of people out ...

Crowley

I think you're right completely.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

I hope Al won't mind me sharing a story about ZL1 development.........

The ZL1 was being tested at "a road course" and at that "road course" was "brand X" --

After extensive track time, the sun was going down - and "Brand X's" truck and trailer arrived - they were getting ready to put the "Brand Xs" on the truck and take 'em back to 'Brand X land'............and one of the drivers said to one of our engineers: "..........so...........where's your truck??"

.....and just about that time, a Suburban pulled up with production seats - the guys proceeded to remove the racing seats and put in the production seats - another set of tires - and off the ZL1 went into the sunset.........

So - what you may or may not have seen (I ain't talkin') would have been a production intent car............


how 'bout them apples???




Damn -- the "Ultra Grin" has set in.................

As much as I'm on the fence about the car... I have to admit.. That was funny..

[Mikamaro]

I think it should be fair to say: Base price tag will be $57K + Delivery + tax.

[Fleet1]

Now let me see how many owners will even come close to driving the ZL1 to it's limits.

[OldJedi]

As much as I was hoping for a $50,000 ZL1 after these numbers (7:41:27) I am pretty sure that it will be more money. It will still be a bargain for what you getting. Reuss said that he hit 170MPH on the back straight at Nurburgring. The ZR1 hit 183MPH with 50 more HP and 500 less pounds and another $60,000. I will be quite happy keeping the $60,000 difference and being 13MPH slower. Thank You to the entire ZL1 development team for building such a phenomenal car for all of us.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Fleet1

Now let me see how many owners will even come close to driving the ZL1 to it's limits.

I'm in a debate with myself... mostly due to how many SS Camaros just sit around doing grocery duty... But, I'm hoping we'll see them dominating tracks of all types all over the world.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Fleet1

Now let me see how many owners will even come close to driving the ZL1 to it's limits.

Why does that matter? What business is it of yours?

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

3. -- (again) Let us all turn to the "thou shalt not" pages in the GT-500 owners manual.......and read in unison..............

I'm new here and don't mean to offend. But this is the second thread I've saw you post this. I asked(and got no answer) if GM was going to be cool with us tracking our cars if/when powertrain warranty is needed?

By your phrase above,it would seem so.

I only quoted here what I was really interested in getting a response to but as far as what I think the ZL1 is worth.....well,look at how much money you have to spend to get this kind of performance & it makes the car a bargain at $60k.

I WILL have one.

Oh,as a last,the 7:41 is being discussed on the Corvette Forum as we type. I guess this puts the whole "It may be fast in a straight line,but wait until you have to turn!" arguement to rest.

Kudos to GM for not just raising the bar....but blowing the bar to the moon!