[DOHCVTEC]

Originally Posted by Bow Tie Fanatic

The overall grip of the car seemed improved with the DSC controller especially part/WOT from the center off.

got that same impression

[Stephen12ZL1]

the controller makes the magnetic shock fluid change stiffness/compliance via different voltage inputs, etc. Why would anyone say this could not increase lateral grip? I realize what some of you are trying to say, however...

[Badmojo]

Originally Posted by Stephen12ZL1

the controller makes the magnetic shock fluid change stiffness/compliance via different voltage inputs, etc. Why would anyone say this could not increase lateral grip? I realize what some of you are trying to say, however...

If it is improving weight transfer, then it can increase lateral grip.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Bow Tie Fanatic

If you’re referring to me, it wasn’t my first track day with my car. It was my first track day(s) with the DSC controller and I had very limited open track the entire weekend which hampered me from going as quick as I could have gone. The overall grip of the car seemed improved with the DSC controller especially part/WOT from the center off.

No, I was referring to Luke. If you like the DSC, then that's great.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Badmojo

If it is improving weight transfer, then it can increase lateral grip.

Not exactly. The point is to optimize the weight transfer vs. time curve for the tire being used. It doesn't increase peak grip, but the lateral acceleration vs. time plot will have more area under the curve with an optimized damper.

Tuning the DSC module, much like the OEM tuning the factory MRC, requires a non-trivial amount of telemetry on top of very skilled test driver feedback. You can get a setup to get great lap times at the expense of being enjoyable for the driver (for a variety of reasons), and vice versa.

When I tested the DSC module at Grattan, I had 4 pre-made tunes that all took different philosophical directions. I loaded each one for each session, chose the one that A) had the best lap times and B) had the best driver feedback, and then pushed forward on that path to improve both throughout the weekend. This had been preceded by weeks of street-tuning. In all I ended up with over 30 positive tune revisions before calling DSC and kindly asking for a refund, which they graciously did. At best I was able to match my OEM controller's lap time at the expense of the car feeling floaty and reactive. It wasn't fun to drive. The out-of-the-box tune put me 5 seconds off my usual pace. I am an instructor for Great Lakes Lotus Club and I have 13 years of HPDE experience on top of 9 years of national-level R/C racing, including a state championship.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Not exactly. The point is to optimize the weight transfer vs. time curve for the tire being used. It doesn't increase peak grip, but the lateral acceleration vs. time plot will have more area under the curve with an optimized damper.

Tuning the DSC module, much like the OEM tuning the factory MRC, requires a non-trivial amount of telemetry on top of very skilled test driver feedback. You can get a setup to get great lap times at the expense of being enjoyable for the driver (for a variety of reasons), and vice versa.

When I tested the DSC module at Grattan, I had 4 pre-made tunes that all took different philosophical directions. I loaded each one for each session, chose the one that A) had the best lap times and B) had the best driver feedback, and then pushed forward on that path to improve both throughout the weekend. This had been preceded by weeks of street-tuning. In all I ended up with over 30 positive tune revisions before calling DSC and kindly asking for a refund, which they graciously did. At best I was able to match my OEM controller's lap time at the expense of the car feeling floaty and reactive. It wasn't fun to drive. The out-of-the-box tune put me 5 seconds off my usual pace. I am an instructor for Great Lakes Lotus Club and I have 13 years of HPDE experience on top of 9 years of national-level R/C racing, including a state championship.

Further proof that GM pretty much nailed the MRC tuning on the 1LE. DSC may make certain cars better (they get high marks in the Porsche world), but it doesn't seem to help the 6th Gen. Camaro's.

[Stephen12ZL1]

jury is out...ZL1 "acid test" at VIR soon...

[MadMotorMagazine]

I've used the DSC Sport v-series controller from day one. I'm an expert in how to do everything wrong, before getting it right. My 2017 SS 1LE is a DSC test mule, and I covered from OEM MRC to RT coil-overs. DSC decided to put someone with very limited track/autocross experience, thru the paces, and see what was encountered, to better help those who overwhelming represent the typical DSC Sport customer. I've learned a lot, but not overnight. Recently we added a Whipple supercharger, to gain information that should be helpful to the ZL1 folks, and I'm working with others to tailor calibrations that can be shared. DSC's stock calibration is based on a stock SS 1LE, with Goodyear tires, so those who run a different tire or add power, may find increasing low speed compression and rebound, beneficial adjustments. The ZL1 is obviously a heavier, more powerful car than an SS 1LE, so good experienced drivers who can push these cars, need some calibration tweaking right off the bat. What a lot of people overlook is v-series controllers make your MRC system ACTIVE. It's not just changing a calibration where it's just another version of OEM, it's fully dynamic, and a sophisticated algorithm is in play, taking data in near real-time, and making adjustments within milliseconds, to optimize tire contact patch. The biggest drawback to having control over calibrations, is that an experienced understanding of automotive racing dampers for track use, and a shock dyno, is necessary to start with an effective blank sheet calibration. For those who don't have an engineering degree, including myself, it's best to start with DSC Camaro calibration, and consult with DSC for technical advice on what to adjust. The difficulty with this, many enthusiasts don't really know how to identify what they may be experiencing, like a mid-corner push. We can read about it, but until someone has enough experience to identify understeer, oversteer, etc., where and when it happens, and knows what shock adjustments need to be made, it's just a guessing game. Take ACTIVE out of the equation, and think only about adjustments. If someone does not know how recognize an adverse handling characteristic, and how to adjust a mechanical shock to improve lap times, they won't be able to do it with a DSC Sport controller either, just based on adjustment. For those who don't have extensive damper knowledge, the stock cal is best to use, and limit adjustments to low speed compression and rebound, and that may lead to a need for mid-level adjustments, then high. It takes work to learn and understand anything tuning related, with a performance car, but as mentioned previously, best to consult with DSC if your brain fogs up like mine did in the beginning. At PRI, an engineer from Ohlins inquired about possibility of DSC supplying a controller, because they're considering an ACTIVE electronic shock system. Racing suspension engineers know and understand the benefits of ACTIVE suspension, and that's where the industry is headed. DSC is working on establishing qualified dealers that can sell and service their own customer base, like tuning shops for engines. DSC could make software a little easier for folks like me and most others to understand, but they can't make a software that gives new users, professional-level race chassis engineering knowledge, with a mouse click. Some expect it to be like Forza, make a few changes and see what happens. Playing a guessing game is not a cheap way to calibrate a controller. Track time, tires, fuel... lots more expensive than "New Game." Does that mean only engineers should purchase a controller? No, it just means have realistic expectations, and learn the basics, grow from there. DSC Sport controllers are not a novelty, they work, period. To say they don't, is to say adjusting shocks doesn't help, not to mention the most important part, they're ACTIVE... yes all caps on ACTIVE, it needs to be remembered, because it not just a calibration that makes it what it is. I'm not an engineering expert, or car genius. I'm a 54-year-old performance car enthusiast, who's putting in the time and effort to learn this stuff. You probably won't encounter anything I haven't, especially if it's a stupid mistake! Remember, crap in, crap out! If you have a question about the DSC Sport controller for Camaro, message me on DSC Sport Facebook page for a quicker response. I'll help where I can, but please, anyone planning to ambush me for the sake of entertainment, please-please, don't take from my time, when it can be spent on someone with the drive and desire to learn like I have, and like I'm still doing. DSC Sport isn't for everyone, but for those who get it, even if it takes a while (like me), you'll be rewarded, because it's an investment in yourself, not just the car. Above all else, go drive, get seat time, and professional instruction. Believe it or not, quality seat time is the most effective driving tool there is, no aftermarket components give you that in a box!

[MadMotorMagazine]

I've tested every version up to the V4 on Camaro, and can say without hesitation, it improves it significantly. I'm an average driver on track and autocross, and my job was to find outstanding co-drivers and test the controller's performance. That process gave a good range of expectations for Camaro owners. The DSC Sport 2017 SS 1LE was tested by Chad Langley head to head, vs his 2017 ZL1 6-speed. At the 2017 Texas CAM Challenge, Chad struggled to run among top CAM C competitors, and after his last qualifying pass, immediately jump in our car, drove the same course on OEM Goodyear tires, and laid down a run that would have made him #1 qualifier. After that run, Chad asked to co-drive the DSC Sport SS 1LE, and parked his ZL1. He went on to win the event, and had great success competing in several events with it. Brian Peters co-drove the DSC Sport SS 1LE at and OPTIMA AutoX event, and had FTD among all cars, for most of day one. That's impressive for a Camaro to run that strong, against C5-6-7 Corvettes, and even the unlimited cars. Disclaimer, Peters is a freak of nature, but he liked the car. I've done these kinds of things, to demonstrate it's not just a personal opinion, but fact, that DSC controllers make every car it has an application for, better. ZL1 owners have power to spare, so getting it down is a concern, wether its road course, drag, or roll racing. Any guesses which shocks and controller Viper world record holder Calvo Racing uses to put well over 2,000 horsepower to the ground? It's not because he plugged it in and everything was magic, DSC didn't make a calibration for a car like his, but he had the suspension knowledge and understanding to take a good tool and use it to his advantage. You're right about the SS 1LE in one regard for sure, the margin for improvement is narrower in just about every category there is. GM did an outstanding job, but even when an improvement is consistency worth a fraction of a second, running your personal best is still a great feeling, especially when you win.

[MadMotorMagazine]

Your results are not anywhere near typical. Did you start with the standard DSC Sport calibration? Did you use the data record feature? If so, we'd like to take a look at your data to figure out what your calibration issue was. You stated your driving ability and experience, so it's reasonable to say the calibrations you created didn't fit with everything else. Same difference if you were to bolt on a set of mechanical racing shocks like JRI's, and not see any improvement. JJ Furillo would tell you your shock settings are wrong, without hesitation, and he'd be right. Unless you dyno an OEM MRC shock, front and rear, understand shocks and settings at a racing suspension engineer level, then "Philosophical Directions" are simply guesses based on what you think something might be. Don't let your past experience and success get in the way of taking a different approach that gets your head around the way MRC shocks work with an ACTIVE controller. I speak from experience, going from knowing absolutely nothing about it, to what I know today, and Ive got a ways to go before I'm happy with my level of experience with racing suspensions. Heck, we've even had Randy Pobst drive DSC Sport equipped cars, and he'll tell you the controllers make a significant difference, and he calls it like it is. Sure wish you were in my area, I'd put you behind the wheel of our Camaro, you'd run rings around me, and want your controller back. You didn't do anything wrong, just got calibrations off a bit, easy to do, if you haven't had MRC's on dyno, to know their range, and what OEM calibrations are doing. I've made bigger mistakes than that in learning about them! Hate that you gave up, I'd have enjoyed working with a good driver like you.

[TRZ06]

MadMotorMagazine: Lots of info there, one word of advice... USE PARAGRAPHS, is it hard to read your novel without it.

BTW, the stock MRC is ACTIVE as well. It makes changes on the fly as well.

[Bow Tie Fanatic]

Originally Posted by MadMotorMagazine

I've used the DSC Sport v-series controller from day one. I'm an expert in how to do everything wrong, before getting it right. My 2017 SS 1LE is a DSC test mule, and I covered from OEM MRC to RT coil-overs. DSC decided to put someone with very limited track/autocross experience, thru the paces, and see what was encountered, to better help those who overwhelming represent the typical DSC Sport customer. I've learned a lot, but not overnight. Recently we added a Whipple supercharger, to gain information that should be helpful to the ZL1 folks, and I'm working with others to tailor calibrations that can be shared. DSC's stock calibration is based on a stock SS 1LE, with Goodyear tires, so those who run a different tire or add power, may find increasing low speed compression and rebound, beneficial adjustments. The ZL1 is obviously a heavier, more powerful car than an SS 1LE, so good experienced drivers who can push these cars, need some calibration tweaking right off the bat. What a lot of people overlook is v-series controllers make your MRC system ACTIVE. It's not just changing a calibration where it's just another version of OEM, it's fully dynamic, and a sophisticated algorithm is in play, taking data in near real-time, and making adjustments within milliseconds, to optimize tire contact patch. The biggest drawback to having control over calibrations, is that an experienced understanding of automotive racing dampers for track use, and a shock dyno, is necessary to start with an effective blank sheet calibration. For those who don't have an engineering degree, including myself, it's best to start with DSC Camaro calibration, and consult with DSC for technical advice on what to adjust. The difficulty with this, many enthusiasts don't really know how to identify what they may be experiencing, like a mid-corner push. We can read about it, but until someone has enough experience to identify understeer, oversteer, etc., where and when it happens, and knows what shock adjustments need to be made, it's just a guessing game. Take ACTIVE out of the equation, and think only about adjustments. If someone does not know how recognize an adverse handling characteristic, and how to adjust a mechanical shock to improve lap times, they won't be able to do it with a DSC Sport controller either, just based on adjustment. For those who don't have extensive damper knowledge, the stock cal is best to use, and limit adjustments to low speed compression and rebound, and that may lead to a need for mid-level adjustments, then high. It takes work to learn and understand anything tuning related, with a performance car, but as mentioned previously, best to consult with DSC if your brain fogs up like mine did in the beginning. At PRI, an engineer from Ohlins inquired about possibility of DSC supplying a controller, because they're considering an ACTIVE electronic shock system. Racing suspension engineers know and understand the benefits of ACTIVE suspension, and that's where the industry is headed. DSC is working on establishing qualified dealers that can sell and service their own customer base, like tuning shops for engines. DSC could make software a little easier for folks like me and most others to understand, but they can't make a software that gives new users, professional-level race chassis engineering knowledge, with a mouse click. Some expect it to be like Forza, make a few changes and see what happens. Playing a guessing game is not a cheap way to calibrate a controller. Track time, tires, fuel... lots more expensive than "New Game." Does that mean only engineers should purchase a controller? No, it just means have realistic expectations, and learn the basics, grow from there. DSC Sport controllers are not a novelty, they work, period. To say they don't, is to say adjusting shocks doesn't help, not to mention the most important part, they're ACTIVE... yes all caps on ACTIVE, it needs to be remembered, because it not just a calibration that makes it what it is. I'm not an engineering expert, or car genius. I'm a 54-year-old performance car enthusiast, who's putting in the time and effort to learn this stuff. You probably won't encounter anything I haven't, especially if it's a stupid mistake! Remember, crap in, crap out! If you have a question about the DSC Sport controller for Camaro, message me on DSC Sport Facebook page for a quicker response. I'll help where I can, but please, anyone planning to ambush me for the sake of entertainment, please-please, don't take from my time, when it can be spent on someone with the drive and desire to learn like I have, and like I'm still doing. DSC Sport isn't for everyone, but for those who get it, even if it takes a while (like me), you'll be rewarded, because it's an investment in yourself, not just the car. Above all else, go drive, get seat time, and professional instruction. Believe it or not, quality seat time is the most effective driving tool there is, no aftermarket components give you that in a box!

Thanks for your feedback. Any suggestions as far as changes I should make to the controller before my next track day in 10 days? I have a ZL1 A10 with stock tires/wheels with Eibach lowering springs. The forward bite was better with the DSC controller and after turn-in the car didn’t seem to slide the nose as much as with the stock controller.

[MadMotorMagazine]

Chris V, no more WiFi, DSC is not pursuing it and longer, there were to many issues with interference and devices battling for the attention of phones, and supporting it with tech and updates, ends up being too costly. I ran an 8' cable up to passenger seat and use a laptop. Way easier for my old eyes to see!

[MadMotorMagazine]

Best thing, record shock data, email it with track info... Laptimizer or hand written notes. I'll get with our resident genius and racing engineer, and go over it, to see where things are for you. What's cool, is when you make a positive change and pick up time, confidence grows, and you push more. That can necessitate even more tweaking, because you're demanding more. For me, low speed C/R settings had most profound impact. Also, if you get a chance to try someones SS 1LE e-diff controller, especially with the GM Performance calibration, give it a go. I know swapping out BCM's with e-diff cal works on 2017's, but GM made changes on 2019's that required DSC to update firmware, so not sure if anything else is effected. All that CAN/bus stuff makes my brain hurt. I can tell you from personal experience, a 2017 ZL1 6 speed performed better on autocross with a SS 1LE e-diff controller. The '17 calibrations on ZL1 made it difficult to rotate on tight turns, and put power down, without kicking rear out. ZL1 1LE calibration is very similar to SS 1LE GM Performance calibration, differences primarily based on accounting for engine torque. I still can't get over how well the Goodyear tires work. Shoot me a message and and I'll get with you on current setup, what's its doing, and when. I've got smart people left n right of me, so one of us will have an answer.