TR6060 MAIN (OUTPUT) SHAFT FAILURE ANALYSIS

[Merc]

Originally Posted by mwt18

Hmmm... Need more info. Your car does run, right? Was it in neutral? Could you tell if the clunk was coming from the tail end or was it inside the trans?

No in neutral you can hear the input bearing. The noise goes away when you inguage the clutch. When you roll the wheels back and forth the clunk sounds like it is comming from the middle of the tranny. Like I said earlier I broke the mainshaft just like the one you have pictured in the thread and they chose to fix rather then replace. I'm headed to the dealer today to open a case with GM over this tranny.

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by Mercuryman

No in neutral you can hear the input bearing. The noise goes away when you inguage the clutch. When you roll the wheels back and forth the clunk sounds like it is comming from the middle of the tranny. Like I said earlier I broke the mainshaft just like the one you have pictured in the thread and they chose to fix rather then replace. I'm headed to the dealer today to open a case with GM over this tranny.

I bet the dealer opted to rebuild vs replace because they get more labor pay. I know Gm allows 3.3 hours for the replacement job. A rebuild job would be significantly more than that. Could turn into a sticky situation for the service manager. Good luck!

[Merc]

I lobbyed GM for a new tranny and they said no. So I think it was a GM call not the dealer.

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by Stex

Interesting,figured thay were quenching around 350-400 F. Are they holding it there for awhile, then air cool?? thanks for the reply. Looking forward to more info when you have it..

Originally Posted by mwt18

I'll scan and post some relevant info from the ASM Heat Treating Handbook later today.

Here's a couple of pages from ASM Handbook Vol 4 briefly describing the equipment, process, and resulting properties.

[Huggerorange73]

I wasn't able to get any shots of the old trans today....GM did replace the trans under warranty though!

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

I wasn't able to get any shots of the old trans today....GM did replace the trans under warranty though!

bummer... One more data point for GM to sweep under the rug.

[mwt18]

Just found another trans tag in this thread:



VIN 18,773. TR6060 Revision ABD. Same as mine.

[2010 SS RS]

Excellent thread and thanks for taking the time to really get to the problem with these. Sure seems like problems have been primarily limited to the sub 25K vins. Which is when GM stopped production until the engineers could figure the whole mess out. I heard that the bearing was not on the early vin cars but was added to subsequent builds that could account for the different part number. Subscribed.

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by 2010 SS RS

I heard that the bearing was not on the early vin cars but was added to subsequent builds that could account for the different part number. Subscribed.

I heard this rumor too, so when I got my new trans, that was one of the first things I checked. The new trannys don't have a bearing either. See this thread.

There is no need for a bearing at this location in the camaro. The corvettes have one and they need them because the output shaft in the corvette tranny connects directly to the differential.

[scnhra]

Ok so forgive me for not quite understanding. GM is replacing the trans as a Preventative Maint. I read the posts and must have missed something. I see where GM should only have to fix if BlahBlah. But do not see where GM is fixing these if you see or hear no signs of an issue.

If that is not the case what are you telling the dealer you are hearing/felling/seing for them to replace if there does not seem to be an issue?

Just asking cause I do not understand so please do not kill me.

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by scnhra

Ok so forgive me for not quite understanding. GM is replacing the trans as a Preventative Maint. I read the posts and must have missed something. I see where GM should only have to fix if BlahBlah. But do not see where GM is fixing these if you see or hear no signs of an issue.

If that is not the case what are you telling the dealer you are hearing/felling/seing for them to replace if there does not seem to be an issue?

Just asking cause I do not understand so please do not kill me.

I updated the original post to provide some background. Here's a link to the story:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...93&postcount=1

GM is not replacing the transmissions as preventative maintenance, i.e. there is no recall on the affected cars. They are taking the fix it when it fails approach. But, us guys with mods are left to hang b/c they are going to do everything they can to deny the warranty claim. The guys who only drive their car on spring Sundays are also screwed. They just don't know it yet. They will figure it out when their shaft breaks after about 5 or 6 years and their warranty is expired.

And keep in mind, we are talking about the first cars built here. Most of these cars were pre-orders and most of their owners are enthusiasts. I think it's pretty safe to say that we are the type that are more prone to add a supercharger, etc.. We put the first the first 25,000 Camaros on the road. We were basically mobile Chevrolet billboards when the 5th gen first came out. I had one of the first Camaros in my state and for that first year, I personally introduced probably 500 people to the new Camaro. Just about every time I stopped for a fill up, the car drew a crowd. I wish I had a dime for every time I heard someone say, "I'm gonna get me one of them." Anyways, we are the guys getting screwed here.. Pardon the rant, had to vent...

[Orange2010SS]

Originally Posted by mwt18

I updated the original post to provide some background. Here's a link to the story:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...93&postcount=1

GM is not replacing the transmissions as preventative maintenance, i.e. there is no recall on the affected cars. They are taking the fix it when it fails approach. But, us guys with mods are left to hang b/c they are going to do everything they can to deny the warranty claim. The guys who only drive their car on spring Sundays are also screwed. They just don't know it yet. They will figure it out when their shaft breaks after about 5 or 6 years and their warranty is expired.

And keep in mind, we are talking about the first cars built here. Most of these cars were pre-orders and most of their owners are enthusiasts. I think it's pretty safe to say that we are the type that are more prone to add a supercharger, etc.. We put the first the first 25,000 Camaros on the road. We were basically mobile Chevrolet billboards when the 5th gen first came out. I had one of the first Camaros in my state and for that first year, I personally introduced probably 500 people to the new Camaro. Just about every time I stopped for a fill up, the car drew a crowd. I wish I had a dime for every time I heard someone say, "I'm gonna get me one of them." Anyways, we are the guys getting screwed here.. Pardon the rant, had to vent...

Thanks for taking the time/effort to dig into this. It's truly appreciated. I have a 2010 VIN #21,xxx. I have a tune on mine and I'm nervous as hell that mine is going to break and it won't be covered. I don't have $3K to drop on a new tranny. A class action suit for those of us with that tranny part # may do the trick. (if that is in fact the exact batch of bad trannies).

[2010 SS RS]

Clearly the concern for sub 25K vin MN6 guys is there. Clearly GM is now changing their stance on repairs to output shaft failures from what has been stated publically to quell the fears. Just as recently as the C5fest in AZ even Al Oppenheiser was telling the enthusiasts that the part was not heat treated properly and would be replaced as they broke. But that word has not gotten to the Zone warranty guys as they are denying most of the affected claims. I guess we should have gone and did that 6000K launch late in the summer of 2009 when they were flying the part in for repair to quiet the media coverage of the problem. I am one of the pay to play guys and would never think of seeking warranty for axels, drive shafts, pumpkin or engine roatating assembly or top end valve train. But for a known defective part I do feel substantially different. Known to the point that production was halted and deliveries held up for several weeks. I have a feeling that its not GM as much as it is Tremec that ends up paying for the claims and they are the ones that are saying warranty if stock void if modified. Bottom line is the metalergical tests dont lie... But will we all have to have them done and jump thru these same hoops if ours break? And as the folks here have stated. Its all the real enthusiasts.. The ones that bought these cars sight unseen, untested, during the entire GM bancruptcy fiasco and have diligently supported GM and the Camaro product on the streets, tracks and car shows that are getting it in the ass. Wake up GM...Look at the big picture and do what is the right thing to do before the press gets hold of the story and posts the quotes that were made.."we will fix them when they break" "cause we know there is a heat treating issue on this batch of cars" Then post up the reality of how this is being handled. Good luck tomorrow at your arbitration meeting. I hope you can report the results back but expect that as part of your settlement they will require you to delete this thread and never speak of your findings again...

[Merc]

Interesting. Mine broke and was repaired. Now it has a noisy input bearing once the tranny is warm. I have been to the dealer with my issues, but has not been booked in yet for the tranny tech to hear yet.