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Old 10-17-2021, 02:47 PM   #29
lowandslow88
 
Drives: 2021 Camaro SS 1LE
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Just did my first track day this past week and I've got a couple questions about pads. I only got about 5 laps in (around 8 minutes total) and the interior of my car smelled like something was burning for the rest of the day. This is on a 2021 1SS 1LE with around 2500 miles on it. I did the initial break-in for the pads when I got it and they haven't given me any issues before or after the track day. They also wore a groove into my right-rear rotor. To me, it seems insane that 5 laps would cause this burning smell and cause the brakes to fade. Like I said, this was my first track day so is this normal? Any recommendations for different pads that can last more than 5 laps? Should I get drilled rotors?
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Old 10-17-2021, 04:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by lowandslow88 View Post
Just did my first track day this past week and I've got a couple questions about pads. I only got about 5 laps in (around 8 minutes total) and the interior of my car smelled like something was burning for the rest of the day. This is on a 2021 1SS 1LE with around 2500 miles on it. I did the initial break-in for the pads when I got it and they haven't given me any issues before or after the track day. They also wore a groove into my right-rear rotor. To me, it seems insane that 5 laps would cause this burning smell and cause the brakes to fade. Like I said, this was my first track day so is this normal? Any recommendations for different pads that can last more than 5 laps? Should I get drilled rotors?

NEVER get drilled rotors. They just crack at the holes and then explode.


It's normal to get brake smell the 1st time you track a fresh set of pads. Unless you did an actual bedding procedure and not the one described in the manual, I would expect strong brake smell and maybe some smoke/sparks on your 1st session.


Did you swap fluid? What fluid did you run with? Almost no chance you experienced pad fade...



Can you post a pic of the groove?


What track?


FYI - I just got home from a full weekend at Sebring in HPDE3 on OEM pads with SRF and never had an issue with fade or performance. I was running in the 2:3x's all weekend.
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Old 10-17-2021, 05:08 PM   #31
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NEVER get drilled rotors. They just crack at the holes and then explode.


It's normal to get brake smell the 1st time you track a fresh set of pads. Unless you did an actual bedding procedure and not the one described in the manual, I would expect strong brake smell and maybe some smoke/sparks on your 1st session.


Did you swap fluid? What fluid did you run with? Almost no chance you experienced pad fade...



Can you post a pic of the groove?


What track?


FYI - I just got home from a full weekend at Sebring in HPDE3 on OEM pads with SRF and never had an issue with fade or performance. I was running in the 2:3x's all weekend.
I only did the brake bedding described in the manual. Stock pads and stock fluid. As far as I could tell there was very minor fading or i'm just not used to race temperature brakes, and the groove is very minor as well. Track was Sandia Speedway in Albuquerque, NM. It kind of sketched me out so I only did a total of 7 runs.
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Old 10-17-2021, 10:56 PM   #32
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I only did the brake bedding described in the manual. Stock pads and stock fluid. As far as I could tell there was very minor fading or i'm just not used to race temperature brakes, and the groove is very minor as well. Track was Sandia Speedway in Albuquerque, NM. It kind of sketched me out so I only did a total of 7 runs.

Stock fluid is your problem. You need a high-temp fluid. The OEM stuff is crap for track work.


Castrol SRF, Motul600/660, ATE Typ200, etc.


You'll need a full flush and bleed with the new fluid.
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Old 10-17-2021, 11:45 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by lowandslow88 View Post
Just did my first track day this past week and I've got a couple questions about pads. I only got about 5 laps in (

DOT 4 fluid and stock pads will be fine for your first year or two of track days. I only see one medium brake zone at that track, most corners just need a tap. If your having to apply the brakes hard enough for them to stink, slow down, (slow in fast out) fast will come, you just have to be patient and learn each track you visit. Take a whole session to familiarize yourself with the track at every track day, and don’t worry about lap times.
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:28 AM   #34
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How many sessions are you guys getting on a set of pads?
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:44 AM   #35
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sessions

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How many sessions are you guys getting on a set of pads?
I would say 10-12 sessions for me or roughly every 4-5 months but I may be the exception for that long a time. Seems to me the ZL! boys are generally wearing theirs out quicker .
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:35 AM   #36
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I would say 10-12 sessions for me or roughly every 4-5 months but I may be the exception for that long a time. Seems to me the ZL! boys are generally wearing theirs out quicker .

yup more power = more braking = more tires lol zl1 1le is too expensive for my blood
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:43 AM   #37
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I think I’m fairly hard on my brakes and definitely have much longer life than 10-12 sessions.

I’m still on my original pads and I’m roughly 24ish (20 min) sessions in… all at Thunderhill, East, West, 5 mile… just refreshed my SRF fluid and inspected my pads and rotors. Still have life. Maybe I’ll refresh pads after my 1/23 & 1/29 events.

Ninojr,
Get those brake SS brake shields I messaged you about. (The new CTS5 BW versions might even be better.) Even with them installed, I often take a few parade laps around the paddock to cool smoking hot brakes.

(Edit: Note there are several guys here running different tires, pads, etc. I’m running all stock with SRF fluid and SS shields)

Last edited by Dabjbr; 01-21-2022 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:52 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL View Post
Stock fluid is your problem. You need a high-temp fluid. The OEM stuff is crap for track work.


Castrol SRF, Motul600/660, ATE Typ200, etc.


You'll need a full flush and bleed with the new fluid.
Absolutely agree. I’ve only used SRF and it’s been excellent. No fade, In fact, I just changed my fluid after a year’s use. Still looked fresh… clear and zero bubbles.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:35 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dabjbr View Post
I think I’m fairly hard on my brakes and definitely have much longer life than 10-12 sessions.

I’m still on my original pads and I’m roughly 24ish (20 min) sessions in… all at Thunderhill, East, West, 5 mile… just refreshed my SRF fluid and inspected my pads and rotors. Still have life. Maybe I’ll refresh pads after my 1/23 & 1/29 events.

Ninojr,
Get those brake SS brake shields I messaged you about. (The new CTS5 BW versions might even be better.) Even with them installed, I often take a few parade laps around the paddock to cool smoking hot brakes.
Well when I say sessions I should probably say TRACK DAYS instead. I average 4-5 20-30 minute track sessions per TRACK DAY. So when you look at it THAT way then I am getting 40-50 30 minute track sessions out of a set of DTC70 / DTC60 pads.

I have roughly the same straightaway speed as a ZL1 with in my case roughly 500 RWHP but I am roughly 200-250 pounds lighter than a ZL1 and I think THAT is why my brakes seem to last longer.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:44 AM   #40
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Well when I say sessions I should probably say TRACK DAYS instead. I average 4-5 20-30 minute track sessions per TRACK DAY. So when you look at it THAT way then I am getting 40-50 30 minute track sessions out of a set of DTC70 / DTC60 pads.

I have roughly the same straightaway speed as a ZL1 with in my case roughly 500 RWHP but I am roughly 200-250 pounds lighter than a ZL1 and I think THAT is why my brakes seem to last longer.
That definitely makes more sense. After looking at my 2021 history, I’m probably closer to 30 sessions in on original pads.

The stock tire/pad combination has been so good I’m reluctant to change it. Besides, I’m still of the mindset the biggest opportunity is driver skill.

Not saying I’m a hack but when I compare my stock time to say, Randy Pobst, I’m a hack.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:47 AM   #41
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First OEM set was about 12 days (about 12 hours of track time) but the second OEM set, after getting more comfortable with the car, was 6 (so 6 hours) with a lot of taper. AP Racing has a paper that talks to this--as you get more comfortable with your car, you will get to where your pads taper. I bring this up because I didn't know to check both ends of my pads for wear--be sure to check the leading edge! (Note the AP Racing paper recommends flipping the pads to max their life; also, these values are for the front pads, back lasts about twice as long.)

As far as fluid, I can't see how fluid would cause your pads to smoke; it sounds more like you may be too fast going into and/or while in the corners and the PTM (which partially works by pinching selective rotors to assist in rotation) is constantly activating. Track driving is really different than street driving (including "canyon carving" or "spiriting street driving"); for example, people tend to brake while cornering on the street, which is not a good practice when starting out on track (though "trail braking" will become useful later on) so one tip--if you're starting out--is to do all of your braking in a straight line, at least while you are getting comfortable. Also, you should not be getting a groove in your rotor as described (maybe a rock stuck in a pad?). DOT 4 is great but I did my whole first season (including a SCCA National-sanctioned TT U1 win) on the GM factory fill of DOT 3. Much of the fluid boiling listed on this site sounds more like fade. I've had the 18-year-old fluid in a car boil on track and you don't get less braking--you have no brakes and the pedal goes to the floor. For me it happened lining up to go back out, but otherwise an on-track boil could be expected to result in the car off track and probably damaged as something other than the brakes are needed for the deceleration (I've witnessed this and it is terrifying to watch). This is relatively rare for the same reason my fluid boiled AFTER my session--on track you should get some level of cooling while on the straights so even my old, black, waterlogged, DOT 3 fluid could handle the temperature on track; once in the pits, the whole brake system heat-soaked over 20 minutes. Now I just use the ATE TYP 200 which meets the min GM requirement (though not on the '21 or newer Camaros according to the manual?) with no issues (and when I come off track it takes 2 or 3 attempts to get my valve caps off to check my pressures due to the intense radiant heat, so any DOT 4 can take a lot of heat), though if you do longer than 20-minute sessions, have old fluid, use PTM a lot, etc., these can all have an adverse effect. Congrats on getting your car out on track--enjoy!
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Last edited by HSLdriver; 01-21-2022 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Add "OEM"
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:58 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabjbr View Post
That definitely makes more sense. After looking at my 2021 history, I’m probably closer to 30 sessions in on original pads.

The stock tire/pad combination has been so good I’m reluctant to change it. Besides, I’m still of the mindset the biggest opportunity is driver skill.

Not saying I’m a hack but when I compare my stock time to say, Randy Pobst, I’m a hack.

haha you a slowboi so hush haha when i did my zzp bbk i used the stock gm oem 1le pads and they were great changed over to hawk dtc60 and not really a big fan



going to try out some girodisc rotors and dtc70 later in the year and see how they are
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