Why would I want a Z/28 over the ZL1?

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

...Give the ZL1 good tires and tell the truth - The ZL1 is and will still be king. With Autocrossers, who will stay in first through 3 gear, get a Z28. But for real tracks, give me race tires and the Monster ZL1....Shitty tires gave it poor exit speed and the absence of a long straight tied up it's horses and torque.

To any who have not driven a ZL1, due to tire limitations, we cannot get on the throttle , exiting a turn, until the car is almost straightened out. Not because of weight, but due to tires failing to hook up if at all sideways.

...I agree with you to a point....the tires can limit the track handling characteristics. They are rock hard. It's gotta be hot out, and they have to be hot themselves to hold. Otherwise they are hockey pucks.

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by Vroom

I think we're a little missing the point. On the track the z28 stock will take a stock zl1. Better tires on the ZL1 and it might gain some ground, but in the end, the z28 will stop and grip better.

The point a lot seem to be missing is that lap times aside, I'd wager the Z28 is much more tossable, fun car to drive. The brakes, the tires, several hundred pounds of weight difference, etc.

The Z28 is raw and visceral like a Porsche GT3, the ZL1 is soft and powerful. Different strokes for different folks.

I just prefer the better and faster car, which is the ZL1 with stickier Z28 tires.

Don't kid yourself. The Z28 lap was a wet lap, I'd wager it's a sub 7:30 car in dry conditions and even GM said as much. Tires on a ZL1 aren't going to make that big of a difference. We won't know until they're put against each other head to head, but I seriously doubt that GM would charge more for a track oriented car that's *slower* than its Camaro stablemate.

If you own a ZL1 I'd say that is a HUGE case of sour grapes. If you don't I'd say you need to educate yourself.

Uh, yeah. I see a lot of ZL1 owners here trying to justify their purchase.

[Betiwin]

Wow 3 seconds over the ZL1 on a small track is insane. Z28 really is the real deal. Surprised how well the 1LE does. So if someone put the Z28 tires and brakes on a 1LE would it be faster than the ZL1?

I'm kidding on the last question but they are both separated by the same time ~ 3 seconds. Chevy ain't playing games these days.

[joeybsyc]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

Uh, yeah. I see a lot of ZL1 owners here trying to justify their purchase.

This is exactly what I'm saying. The biggest group of Z/28 neigh-sayers are current ZL1 owners. I'd love a ZL1 OR a Z/28... but the only folks who seem to put the ZL1 above the Z/28 are the ones who already own a ZL1... which is fine I suppose. I just remember when the GT500 came out and outran the ZL1 at the strip everyone said the ZL1 was actually more of a track car... but when the Z/28 outruns the ZL1 on the track, its back to being a strip car. I'm glad I just have a lowly SS that gets beat by everything. haha

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by NightmareZL1

I just prefer the better and faster car, which is the ZL1 with stickier Z28 tires.

I can not wait until an online reviewer puts the same rubber on both cars and does a head to head. It's going to be embarrassing for the z28.

I have pulled more than 1G at 110 - 115 mph. Done often, and on the same turn. By myself, with an empty gas tank or with a passanger and a full gas tank. Do you know what is very apparent...The tires are the weak point everytime, the 300lbs of passenger and gas is not felt. I have the same traction limit with or without the 300lbs.

So, give the ZL1 sticky tires, and give us lap times VS the Z28 - Yes, GM, talking to YOU. You gave the Z06 and the Zr1 sticky rubber for better ring times, so lets see what your real King Camaro can do with actual grip, instead of slip.

The tires on the Z06 and ZR1 when they went back were for when they wanted to see how the two cars did with their new performance packages, which included new tires (among other things). Of course, most people forget that part and just remember that they went back with new tires to get better times.

Anyway, in your hypothetical comparison ... I'm sure you wouldn't mind if the Z/28 involved were to get the 580 hp from the ZL1, right? Or would that be considered 'unfair'?

Originally Posted by LBV

Everything I've read says the Z28 will be more expensive and THAT I can't understand when you compare content and HP.

Have you priced out carbon ceramic brakes? Or multimatic shocks? Or hand built engines? Those things don't exactly come cheap.

Originally Posted by SamHouseIII

Top speed on the Ring...ZL1=173mph......Z/28=161mph...

You left something out:
Top speed on the Ring...ZL1=173mph (dry) ......Z/28=161mph (wet)...

The Z/28 was holding 6000 or so rpm for a while on the back straight, my guess is because it was raining and the driver didn't want to push it any further than that (or was told not to). Since the LS7 peaks at 6300, it shouldn't have had much of an issue (in fair conditions) hitting 168 mph (160 x 6300/6000 = 168). Would it have hit 170 on a better day? Maybe, maybe not. But it could certainly have done better than 161.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The tires on the Z06 and ZR1 when they went back were for when they wanted to see how the two cars did with their new performance packages, which included new tires (among other things). Of course, most people forget that part and just remember that they went back with new tires to get better times.

Anyway, in your hypothetical comparison ... I'm sure you wouldn't mind if the Z/28 involved were to get the 580 hp from the ZL1, right? Or would that be considered 'unfair'?





Have you priced out carbon ceramic brakes? Or multimatic shocks? Or hand built engines? Those things don't exactly come cheap.
You left something out:
Top speed on the Ring...ZL1=173mph (dry) ......Z/28=161mph (wet)...

The Z/28 was holding 6000 or so rpm for a while on the back straight, my guess is because it was raining and the driver didn't want to push it any further than that (or was told not to). Since the LS7 peaks at 6300, it shouldn't have had much of an issue (in fair conditions) hitting 168 mph (160 x 6300/6000 = 168). Would it have hit 170 on a better day? Maybe, maybe not. But it could certainly have done better than 161.

Well Done!

[kingbambino22]

The ZL1 only has a tiny bit more speed through the esses than the 1LE. The 1LE had only a 0.7 MPH slower max speed vs the ZL1. What's your point? Give the 1LE the bigger sway bars, DSSV dampers and 305 Troferos and I bet it almost beats the ZL1 but that isn't how GM built it and they won't change it. We get it, you are a sensitive ZL1 owner who has to go around pointing out how great the ZL1 is an it's not fair, but stop. It's annoying hearing that.

Don't forget the extra weight you are carrying. Those nice sticky, soft tires you want will be torn up much faster trying to control the nose heavy ZL1. Then you get heat soak and that will kill your power, which the Z/28 doesn't have to deal with nearly as much.[/QUOTE]

[31B]

I would take either of these cars. Bottom Line: they are both Camaros and they are both insane machines. Don't nay say until you have sat in one and threw it around a track.

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

The point a lot seem to be missing is that lap times aside, I'd wager the Z28 is much more tossable, fun car to drive. The brakes, the tires, several hundred pounds of weight difference, etc.

The Z28 is raw and visceral like a Porsche GT3, the ZL1 is soft and powerful. Different strokes for different folks.



Don't kid yourself. The Z28 lap was a wet lap, I'd wager it's a sub 7:30 car in dry conditions and even GM said as much. Tires on a ZL1 aren't going to make that big of a difference. We won't know until they're put against each other head to head, but I seriously doubt that GM would charge more for a track oriented car that's *slower* than its Camaro stablemate.



Uh, yeah. I see a lot of ZL1 owners here trying to justify their purchase.

I would love to own a Z/28 but not at $70K plus. At that point I would look at a C7 Z51.

Specific to the wet lap (or partial wet lap); don't you think after 10 hours and 1,000 miles on the track they would have at least 1 hero run on a dry track recorded? That does seem odd they would mention the quicker run; yet not record it. We can speculate all we want; but the lap time stands until they record a better time. Rules of the 'Ring, right?

The team spent a week at the Nürburgring as part of the Z/28’s performance-validation regimen, accumulating a total of 10 hours and nearly 1,000 miles on the track. Each lap took less than eight minutes to complete, despite having to overtake slower traffic at times. These hours are part of the grueling 24-Hour Test, which simulates a full year’s worth of track use of track days or amateur-level competition at the hands of an owner.

[avcbm]

I don’t drag race or road race, but I do find the going back and forth on the two entertaining….. The bottom line is that off the show room floor the Z/28 is so far quicker around the track….. The question I would like to ask is, does the tires on the Z/28 give it better grip then the tires on the ZL1, or if the Z/28 had the same tires as the ZL1 would it still run the same lap time or slower, I know this is hypothetical unless someone actually test that theory…… if the tires do in fact contribute to a faster lap time, how much time would be contributed to that time… and how much time could be gained by the ZL1 with the same tires on the Z/28……. If someone that has track/road race experience and knows tires from their experience could chime in with a technical answer, I would like to hear their thoughts as I’m trying to understand the tire advantage…. From what I’m reading when doing road courses, the power of the car is not all that important because you can only use so much depending on the course configuration, what seems to be more important is stopping and grip through the curves.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

I would love to own a Z/28 but not at $70K plus. At that point I would look at a C7 Z51.

Specific to the wet lap (or partial wet lap); don't you think after 10 hours and 1,000 miles on the track they would have at least 1 hero run on a dry track recorded? That does seem odd they would mention the quicker run; yet not record it. We can speculate all we want; but the lap time stands until they record a better time. Rules of the 'Ring, right?

It will come. There will be many track times witnessed by numerous mags and such.

[MIZL1]

While racing down the street, strip or track with the a/c on and smiling at the HUD after investing less than $2,500 into a tune and pulley swap (less than a cost of a good stereo) I would not be afraid of loosing to the Z28.

If I were the guy with the stock Z28 whom has another 10k invested, 125 less hp than slightly modded ZL1 and the same $2,500 to spend on mods........... Buy the stereo!

Z28 is going to be nice but GM should have put more separation between the 2 cars especially for the money.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by avcbm

I don’t drag race or road race, but I do find the going back and forth on the two entertaining….. The bottom line is that off the show room floor the Z/28 is so far quicker around the track….. The question I would like to ask is, does the tires on the Z/28 give it better grip then the tires on the ZL1, or if the Z/28 had the same tires as the ZL1 would it still run the same lap time or slower, I know this is hypothetical unless someone actually test that theory…… if the tires do in fact contribute to a faster lap time, how much time would be contributed to that time… and how much time could be gained by the ZL1 with the same tires on the Z/28……. If someone that has track/road race experience and knows tires from their experience could chime in with a technical answer, I would like to hear their thoughts as I’m trying to understand the tire advantage…. From what I’m reading when doing road courses, the power of the car is not all that important because you can only use so much depending on the course configuration, what seems to be more important is stopping and grip through the curves.

But especially longevity when it comes to a true track car.

[avcbm]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

But especially longevity when it comes to a true track car.

please don't add to my question.... I wasn't interested in longevity..... just if it the tires would make a difference....