Automobile Magazine - Too Long To Wait For Camaro?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Loader

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even LS9CamaroSS who called my '71 396 Camaro, my '68 RS Camaro, my '68 RS/SS Camaro, and my '68 455 Firebird "Shit you used to race back in the day". I guess he prefers the much better cars of the late '70s!

With all due respect to LS9CamaroSS...who I very much doubt meant what he said like that ...I'd do anything to get my hands on just one of your cars: Absofrigginlutely Amazing!!!

Originally Posted by Loader

I finish school in March. I need to pick a good graduation present. I think I found a good idea!

[Congoman775]

GM isnt the company that is in danger of going down.


Dodge is.

[Loader]

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

Right here is why GM is taking so long to get the car out. So they don't end up with a "honda look-a-like-they-called-a-GTO" Camaro... do you don't realize what is riding on this car? for the age you put down for your self on the age thread you don't show it in patience. They aren't trying to get a "Retro" vehicle out they want a brand new car reminiscent of the old days. the mustang looks waaaaay too much like a first generation mustang and not enough like a new car... This camaro looks a bit like the 69 but it is completely new. The next generation Mustang is supposed to look like a 1970 Mustang. So if you want a car that looks like the Shit you used to race back in the day go by the POS blue oval you despise so much and don't cry too hard when a V6 camaro blows the doors off of your GT...

What does my age have to do with patience?? If anything, it should explain any perceived impatience! Time's running out!
The reason the Mustang is so cool is because it looks so much like the old one. If you want GM to build a new car that looks like a new car, then ask them so build a totally new car that doesn't look like anything that has been and give it a NEW NAME. This is supposed to be a Camaro. It's supposed to be retro to take on Ford in the niche they have locked up. If not, why use the Camaro name? It's to revive the Mustang vs. Camaro rivalry.

The "Shit" I used to race? Do you hate Camaros and GM products that much? You shouldn't get to wild unless you know what you're talking about. There was a 331 and then a 396 in my '71 Camaro that a raced every weekend. I had two '68 Camaros - an RS and an RS/SS. I've had small blocks that launched at 6,000 RPM with the side-step of a clutch. I stuffed a 455HO GTO engine in my '68 Firebird and ran 11's with a quadrajet (back when a 12-second car was considered really fast). Then there was my SS396 El Camino, my dual-quad, 396 '55 2-door BelAir, there was a '68 Nova and a '70 Nove SS 350 in there, oh - more shit - a '70 SS396 Chevelle with the cowl induction hood and rock-crusher trans, the Monza I stuffed a small block into, my 10-second daily driver 2000 SS (Camaro - see Avatar), and then several Opel Asconas and Mantas that i road raced while I showed my limited production '87 Buick - but that only has a V6 in it and will only run mid-11's. Is that enough "shit". I could give you the list of Chrysler products, including my 45,000-mile Dodge 440 6-pack 4-spd car or the 980-hp blown alky 392 hemi I put in a boat! But I wouldn't want to bore you with all that "shit" that you may not even know about. Are you too young for all this? Do you think that Spiderman and Speed Racer are new things people just dreamed up?

Nothing personal, just relax and don't be so quick to attack someone for having an opinion that isn't exactly like yours. You aren't always 100% correct, you know.

[Omega94]

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

The way I see it, There is big money in the retro market, and I can see other automakers following GM, Ford, and Dodge

...I respectfully disagree...we may be in a time where 'retro' is the trend...but I don't see it staying this way. The Mustang is coming out with a refresh or a whole new body style to go with the new chassis...(soon...) and in order for the Camaro to keep up, it'll be in for a refresh relatively soon after it's release. But seriously...what other automotive manufacturers do you think will jump on the 'retro' bandwagon? Mercedes? BMW? Honda? Toyota? Hyundai? I don't see any of them going retro...BMW may have just done an M1 tribute, but it looks very futuristic. Honda had toyed with doing a CRX again...but again...some of the renderings looked very modern. Toyota and the supra...the renderings of a modern day Supra looks nothing like the Supra of old. Anyway, the retro thing is going to play itself out...at least, that's what I think.

[GhoSSt]

Originally Posted by Scotsman

So as long as the market positioning and advertising are based around fuel efficiency and an iconic heritage the Camaro will do fine. However the product mix will have to change; V8's are NOT selling. I just got a call from a Pontiac dealer a few days ago that was marking G8 GT's $3g's over sticker 2.5 months ago and now they're trying their hardest to move every last one because no one wants a gas guzzler. What people do want is more MPG If GM is smart they'll bump the DI 3.6L V6 to 300+ hp and bring out an Ecotec 4 a year or so after launch, and believe me, with the way things are with gas prices that thing WILL sell.

We have some 2007 Pontiac Solstices and some other things still on our local lots. It is not just the V8's that aren't selling. Things are SLOW.

Originally Posted by Omega94

...I respectfully disagree...we may be in a time where 'retro' is the trend...but I don't see it staying this way. The Mustang is coming out with a refresh or a whole new body style to go with the new chassis...(soon...) and in order for the Camaro to keep up, it'll be in for a refresh relatively soon after it's release. But seriously...what other automotive manufacturers do you think will jump on the 'retro' bandwagon? Mercedes? BMW? Honda? Toyota? Hyundai? I don't see any of them going retro...BMW may have just done an M1 tribute, but it looks very futuristic. Honda had toyed with doing a CRX again...but again...some of the renderings looked very modern. Toyota and the supra...the renderings of a modern day Supra looks nothing like the Supra of old. Anyway, the retro thing is going to play itself out...at least, that's what I think.

Toyota FJ whatever it is. That is totally retro.
BMW 1 Series is supposed to be a revived 2002
Nissan Z interior looks much like the original Datsun 240Z and the exterior has some of the DNA.

[Omega94]

Originally Posted by GhoSSt

Toyota FJ whatever it is. That is totally retro.
BMW 1 Series is supposed to be a revived 2002
Nissan Z interior looks much like the original Datsun 240Z and the exterior has some of the DNA.

Yes...the FJ is very retro...how well is it doing? Honestly, I think it'll get phased out soon. The BMW 1-Series may be a ressurected 2002...but it doesn't look like one...Yes, it's a 2-door and it's mighty small...but the similarities stop there. Remember, I'm talking about the looks...retro look. And yes, the 350Z does look similar to the Datson...it just does. I don't really know what to say...I just think that the retro phase will end...I'm incredibly excited for the 5th Gen...and I can't wait for it to come out...but I don't think that many more automakers will jump on this retro bandwagon... BUT...that's just me

[Ottenbacher2]

Originally Posted by Scotsman

So as long as the market positioning and advertising are based around fuel efficiency and an iconic heritage the Camaro will do fine. However the product mix will have to change; V8's are NOT selling. I just got a call from a Pontiac dealer a few days ago that was marking G8 GT's $3g's over sticker 2.5 months ago and now they're trying their hardest to move every last one because no one wants a gas guzzler. What people do want is more MPG If GM is smart they'll bump the DI 3.6L V6 to 300+ hp and bring out an Ecotec 4 a year or so after launch, and believe me, with the way things are with gas prices that thing WILL sell.

I don't know why anybody would get the 3.6L over the GT on the G8. The 3.6 gets 17/25 mpg and the GT gets 15/24 mpg and the GT has 106 more HP and the 3.6 would cost the same as the GT if you add all the options onto it that are standard on the GT. If the Camaro wasn't coming out I would buy a G8 GT.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by Ottenbacher2

I don't know why anybody would get the 3.6L over the GT on the G8. The 3.6 gets 17/25 mpg and the GT gets 15/24 mpg and the GT has 106 more HP and the 3.6 would cost the same as the GT if you add all the options onto it that are standard on the GT. If the Camaro wasn't coming out I would buy a G8 GT.

They have more than 1000 V6 G8's sitting in the port waiting to be tagged (ordered). The port shipped all V8's a while ago. 2009 production adjusted to 70% V8 (GT).

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Loader

What does my age have to do with patience?? If anything, it should explain any perceived impatience! Time's running out!
The reason the Mustang is so cool is because it looks so much like the old one. If you want GM to build a new car that looks like a new car, then ask them so build a totally new car that doesn't look like anything that has been and give it a NEW NAME. This is supposed to be a Camaro. It's supposed to be retro to take on Ford in the niche they have locked up. If not, why use the Camaro name? It's to revive the Mustang vs. Camaro rivalry.

The "Shit" I used to race? Do you hate Camaros and GM products that much? You shouldn't get to wild unless you know what you're talking about. There was a 331 and then a 396 in my '71 Camaro that a raced every weekend. I had two '68 Camaros - an RS and an RS/SS. I've had small blocks that launched at 6,000 RPM with the side-step of a clutch. I stuffed a 455HO GTO engine in my '68 Firebird and ran 11's with a quadrajet (back when a 12-second car was considered really fast). Then there was my SS396 El Camino, my dual-quad, 396 '55 2-door BelAir, there was a '68 Nova and a '70 Nove SS 350 in there, oh - more shit - a '70 SS396 Chevelle with the cowl induction hood and rock-crusher trans, the Monza I stuffed a small block into, my 10-second daily driver 2000 SS (Camaro - see Avatar), and then several Opel Asconas and Mantas that i road raced while I showed my limited production '87 Buick - but that only has a V6 in it and will only run mid-11's. Is that enough "shit". I could give you the list of Chrysler products, including my 45,000-mile Dodge 440 6-pack 4-spd car or the 980-hp blown alky 392 hemi I put in a boat! But I wouldn't want to bore you with all that "shit" that you may not even know about. Are you too young for all this? Do you think that Spiderman and Speed Racer are new things people just dreamed up?

Nothing personal, just relax and don't be so quick to attack someone for having an opinion that isn't exactly like yours. You aren't always 100% correct, you know.

You drive a lot of sheet (j/k - I WISH I had a percentage of the rides you've had in your garage )

[Namrepus28]

Originally Posted by Omega94

...I respectfully disagree...we may be in a time where 'retro' is the trend...but I don't see it staying this way. The Mustang is coming out with a refresh or a whole new body style to go with the new chassis...(soon...) and in order for the Camaro to keep up, it'll be in for a refresh relatively soon after it's release. But seriously...what other automotive manufacturers do you think will jump on the 'retro' bandwagon? Mercedes? BMW? Honda? Toyota? Hyundai? I don't see any of them going retro...BMW may have just done an M1 tribute, but it looks very futuristic. Honda had toyed with doing a CRX again...but again...some of the renderings looked very modern. Toyota and the supra...the renderings of a modern day Supra looks nothing like the Supra of old. Anyway, the retro thing is going to play itself out...at least, that's what I think.

The other automotive manufacturers can't jump on the retro bandwagon b/c they don't have anything that is both old enough, and interesting enough to revive. Most of the models you listed don't really have a HISTORY or an extraordinary amount of character like classic American muscle cars do.

Remember this : History always repeats itself. What's old always becomes new again. It's not just a "retro trend". Once people get older, they yearn for things that remind them of their youth. Therefore the global market responds accordingly. And I'm not just talking about cars. This cycle will repeat itself throughout the ages.

Now then, back on topic: It sure seems like it's been forever that I've been hearing about the new Camaro. But for me, honestly, I won't be in the market to buy one when they come out anyway. So am I all anxious, or frustrated? Not really no. I say they should take their time and do it right. And from what I've seen they haven't messed it up so far. Let's hope it stays that way right up to production.

[Omega94]

Originally Posted by Namrepus28

The other automotive manufacturers can't jump on the retro bandwagon b/c they don't have anything that is both old enough, and interesting enough to revive. Most of the models you listed don't really have a HISTORY or an extraordinary amount of character like classic American muscle cars do.

Remember this : History always repeats itself. What's old always becomes new again. It's not just a "retro trend". Once people get older, they yearn for things that remind them of their youth. Therefore the global market responds accordingly. And I'm not just talking about cars. This cycle will repeat itself throughout the ages.

I don't want to continue thread jacking...but I will say this...Many of the automakers that I've mentioned have a very rich history. For instance, Mercedes and BMW. Both amazing companies...I tend to think that the M1 is certainly a fabeled nameplate and has quite an amazing amount of character...and the same goes for a car like the Supra. In terms of years, they don't have the same kind of history as a Camaro, Mustang, or Corvette, but then again...look at the Challenger. It's production run was...1970-1974...Not much of a history, huh...Mopar fans will STRONGLY disagree...just like Supra diehards and M1 diehards would disagree.

As far as history repeating itself...yes, I agree with you, however, not that quickly. I would be curious as to whether or not the concept for the new Camaro was conceived because of middle to late aged men's (and women's) yearning for a modern iteration of the Camaro of their youth. Since the 4th Gen is the Camaro of my youth...do you believe it will find new life within the design of the 8th gen? That's not a smart comment...I'm truly interested in hearing what you have to say.

[LS9CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

With all due respect to LS9CamaroSS...who I very much doubt meant what he said like that ...I'd do anything to get my hands on just one of your cars: Absofrigginlutely Amazing!!!

Thank you at least you got what i meant... To loader... i think the cars you have are amazing... but they are amazing in only one way... power. if you put these cars on the track against a mustang of today (and i mean a road track like Watkins Glenn) they would be beat to hell... this new camaro needs to do better than just straight line in order to sell... it needs to handle (yes i know the first gen camaro was top of it's class for handling back then and for a little while so was the 2nd gen) and it needs to sip gas... if you weren't an enthusiast, like most/all of us are on this site, you wouldn't want a heavy car that can't perform well in the corners or one that guzzles gas... what i said was relative... not a total judgment of your collection of vehicles... i guess i should have chosen my words differently... i got on a rant sorry for that...

[Namrepus28]

Originally Posted by Omega94

I don't want to continue thread jacking...but I will say this...Many of the automakers that I've mentioned have a very rich history. For instance, Mercedes and BMW. Both amazing companies...I tend to think that the M1 is certainly a fabeled nameplate and has quite an amazing amount of character...and the same goes for a car like the Supra. In terms of years, they don't have the same kind of history as a Camaro, Mustang, or Corvette, but then again...look at the Challenger. It's production run was...1970-1974...Not much of a history, huh...Mopar fans will STRONGLY disagree...just like Supra diehards and M1 diehards would disagree.

As far as history repeating itself...yes, I agree with you, however, not that quickly. I would be curious as to whether or not the concept for the new Camaro was conceived because of middle to late aged men's (and women's) yearning for a modern iteration of the Camaro of their youth. Since the 4th Gen is the Camaro of my youth...do you believe it will find new life within the design of the 8th gen? That's not a smart comment...I'm truly interested in hearing what you have to say.

K, I'll bite. Apologies for the thread jack to all those concerned.

Here's an example. What's the next gen Mustang supposed to resemble? They're leaning more towards the 70's look now right? Or at least they plan to very soon. There could very well be a time when the auto-makers are building cars that are loosely styled on 90's models in order to invoke a feeling of nostalgia in older customers...at which time will be folks like you and I.


I had more to write but I'll PM you the rest and we can have a back and forth discussion that way so we don't clutter up the board.

/threadjack

[a12ozbottle]

Yes...the FJ is very retro...how well is it doing? Honestly, I think it'll get phased out soon. The BMW 1-Series may be a ressurected 2002...but it doesn't look like one...Yes, it's a 2-door and it's mighty small...but the similarities stop there. Remember, I'm talking about the looks...retro look. And yes, the 350Z does look similar to the Datson...it just does. I don't really know what to say...I just think that the retro phase will end...I'm incredibly excited for the 5th Gen...and I can't wait for it to come out...but I don't think that many more automakers will jump on this retro bandwagon... BUT...that's just me

If this is what you had to base your retro vehicle off of, would you do it?