Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
TireRack
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Members Area > General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-16-2008, 01:39 PM   #1
fbodfather


 
fbodfather's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros................
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seven Fields, PA (Pittsburgh)
Posts: 4,523
ANOTHER interesting read -- how we subsidize foreign brands.....

Tax Fairness for U.S. Auto Makers – The Wall Street Journal
December 16, 2008
Your Dec. 1 editorial "America's Other Auto Industry" questions whether taxpayers should provide temporary federal loans to American automakers, but conveniently ignores one fact: Our taxpayers already give huge sums of financial assistance to foreign car companies right here in the U.S.
As proposed, the requested bridge loans represent roughly $4 billion in assistance to U.S. auto makers, that is, the cost of a low-interest loan. With 240,000 employees spread among the three U.S. companies, that works out to less than $16,000 in temporary taxpayer assistance per job.
By contrast, foreign auto makers receive far more from U.S. taxpayers in various forms of government assistance. In Tennessee, for example, state and local authorities offered Volkswagen $577 million in lowered taxes and other benefits in exchange for the plants it is constructing, at a staggering cost of $288,000 per job created.
Similarly, Toyota is receiving $300 million in support for its plant in Texas, or $150,000 per job created. Alabama provided Hyundai, Toyota, Honda and Mercedes an average of $111,000 in incentives per job. The list goes on. Unlike the temporary assistance GM, Ford and Chrysler are seeking, in almost all the cases, U.S. taxpayer subsidies to foreign companies never need to be paid back.
Let's make sure to keep the discussion balanced. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Kia and Hyundai already receive far more in permanent financial support from our own taxpayers than what the U.S. auto industry is seeking. Our own companies deserve equal consideration, no more, no less.
Stephen Collins
President
Automotive Trade Policy Council
Washington
fbodfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 02:25 PM   #2
MCPOAJ
 
Drives: LS2 FD RX7
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NE.
Posts: 664
FIRST!!!!

good read btw i think this whole situation is stupid and i wish that they would just give them the loan
MCPOAJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 02:26 PM   #3
FenwickHockey65
General Motors Aficionado
 
FenwickHockey65's Avatar
 
Drives: 2023 GMC Canyon, 2020 Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 37,371
Send a message via AIM to FenwickHockey65
Just goes to show how much America really does hate its own corporations.
__________________
2023 GMC Canyon Elevation
2020 Chevrolet Colorado W/T Extended Cab (State-issued)
FenwickHockey65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 04:33 PM   #4
z28camaro2471
C5 Member #227
 
z28camaro2471's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 808
The more I read, the sicker I get. What really annoys me is that over 50% of the general public opposes any type of government loan to our auto manufacturers. I'm sure these people have some type of Korean or Japanese appliance in their driveways.

Do your part...and...BUY AMERICAN! Buy a Camaro or even a Mustang or Challenger or a Malibu or a CTS or a Silverado or a Cobalt or...... Have intelligent conversations with your import loving friends. Point them to independent research that shows the quality of our domestic brands.
z28camaro2471 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 06:41 PM   #5
TFord
Camaro Fanatic
 
TFord's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Z28
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 1,809
Send a message via Yahoo to TFord
Quote:
Originally Posted by z28camaro2471 View Post
The more I read, the sicker I get. What really annoys me is that over 50% of the general public opposes any type of government loan to our auto manufacturers. I'm sure these people have some type of Korean or Japanese appliance in their driveways.

Do your part...and...BUY AMERICAN! Buy a Camaro or even a Mustang or Challenger or a Malibu or a CTS or a Silverado or a Cobalt or...... Have intelligent conversations with your import loving friends. Point them to independent research that shows the quality of our domestic brands.
converting 'em one at a time
TFord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 07:24 PM   #6
GrnMchin
Not easy being Green
 
GrnMchin's Avatar
 
Drives: 67 Nova SS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 2,256
Never thought I would see the time when the US Government and US tax payers would be so willing to turn against their own. It seems that at times the US sells itself short. I have hope theirs a brighter future ahead.
GrnMchin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 08:13 PM   #7
TheCaptain
N7 Spectre
 
TheCaptain's Avatar
 
Drives: 14 ATS Performance 3.6L AWD
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moosomin, Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 2,734
Send a message via MSN to TheCaptain
It sort of goes along with... what's that word... outsourcing. Its sad, but true. Take jobs away from (north) Americans to make items cheaper in China/korea/etc.

A good read Fbodfather!
__________________
TheCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 08:46 AM   #8
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
Double standard much?
GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 10:32 AM   #9
The_Stache
SoCal Race Team #13
 
The_Stache's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1SS:RS:LS3:SW
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,803
Guess I have to be the devils advocate here.. but if the states where giving "extras" to these foreign companies.. why didnt GM/Ford/DCX jump on the boat and build some plants there? Especially if its such a huge issue....

Personally I just don't see how this article is related (oh and I am in favor of the loan).
__________________
A.K.A - Diarmadhi (old handle) - So much to do.. So little money
Owner : Fast-Stache Industries LLC
The_Stache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 11:55 AM   #10
rgrizzard
 
Drives: Wanting New Camaro
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
Guess I have to be the devils advocate here.. but if the states where giving "extras" to these foreign companies.. why didnt GM/Ford/DCX jump on the boat and build some plants there? Especially if its such a huge issue....

Personally I just don't see how this article is related (oh and I am in favor of the loan).



Good Point these are state tax dollars not federal. GM has the same ability to open up plants in these locations as well and recieve the same tax breaks. In fact they often negoitiate retooling a plant for tax breaks and other incentives vs. just closing down and building somewhere else.

Another point to consider is that these states in question are trying to attract manufacturing to boost their economies. Is Michigan doing this as well? Or to put it another way, say you are state "A" and a car company is thinking about opening up in your state vs. another, you have to compete for their business to gain more employment for your citizens.

Should we tell foreign manufacturers not to build here and layoff some more Americans???
rgrizzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 11:57 AM   #11
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 31,876
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrizzard View Post
Should we tell foreign manufacturers not to build here and layoff some more Americans???
It's not that we don't want them here paying our citizens to do their dirty work. But we shouldn't help them compete against us. Which is what all these subsidies are doing!
__________________
"Keep the faith." - Fbodfather
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 11:58 AM   #12
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
Guess I have to be the devils advocate here.. but if the states where giving "extras" to these foreign companies.. why didnt GM/Ford/DCX jump on the boat and build some plants there? Especially if its such a huge issue....

Personally I just don't see how this article is related (oh and I am in favor of the loan).
The insinuation is that the big three are under such pressure to be tied to the unions that they don't want them to build plants in Right to work states. Meaning they wouldn't have to use unions...

If I were the Gov of a RTW state. I'd do everything in my power to entice the Big three to move to my state. Can you image the long term benefits.

Having said that, if the Big three move from Michigan, that state would self destruct. So, it's probably much harder than I make it out to be.

And what Dragon said.
GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 12:11 PM   #13
rgrizzard
 
Drives: Wanting New Camaro
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
It's not that we don't want them here paying our citizens to do their dirty work. But we shouldn't help them compete against us. Which is what all these subsidies are doing!
Actually these tax breaks and subsidies are enabling manufacturing(all, not just cars) to even exist in the states. Taiwanese labor costs about 1/2 of American and Chinese is a 1/4 of that. I've spent a fair amount of time with them and we are just not competitive with labor costs and thats not likely to change so we have to keep subsidizing manufacturing to keep jobs.

If states did not offer this to any company they would likely build in another country and again we all loose.

So I say to GM, Ford and Chrysler(even though I can't stand Chrysler), move your plants to RTW states where you get better deals on taxes and labor. It's funny the state that you helped build is holding you back with taxes and rudimentary labor laws.
rgrizzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2008, 12:25 PM   #14
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 31,876
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Then let them build in their country if we're too high-priced. That's due to our Nation's standard of living (thanks in no small part to the big three), and I'd rather not compromise that for the sake of a few thousand jobs. Sounds harsh, but
__________________
"Keep the faith." - Fbodfather
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another interesting read MerlinZero General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 3 12-04-2008 02:29 PM
Interesting read on American cars and trucks...... fbodfather General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 8 12-22-2006 08:47 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.