"But it's stripped down!"

[Kevlar382]

The new Z/28 should have been the car that everybody on Camaro5 wanted, a 1LE/ LS7 and let the costumer decide what they did and did not want as far as options go. The brakes, tires, wheels, and gearing is what is making the biggest impact on lap times.
If it really is close to $70,000, by the time a person can get one you will be able to pick up a used ZR1 that is faster and have every thing you want, except a back seat that no one can fit in, and won't use at the track anyway.
Is there really that many people that even live with in a couple hundred miles of a track? We are lucky living in West Michigan with two tracks that are about 30 mi away but on an average open track day there might be 6-8 cars and a hand full of bikes.
It seems GM could sell a lot more Z/28s, and make more money, if they were more street friendly. I think they owe it to the tax payers to make as much money as they can.
I have two cars, a 57 conv, and a 71 RS/Z28 that I hardly ever use because of lack of options. Can't imagine being in any hurry to buy another one.
Just my .02 worth because I wish I could get a new Z/28 the way I would want one.

[Kevlar382]

Originally Posted by ALLTRBO

Just how stripped down is the 2014 Z/28? Let's break it down.
It has (or most likely will- if not confirmed), in no particular order...


-power steering (variable assist electric)
-power brakes
-power mirrors
-ABS
-power windows (express up/down)
-power locks
-power trunk
-keyless entry w/panic alarm
-tilt steering
-telescoping steering
-cruise control
-4 seats
-6 airbags
-2 cupholders
-12V power outlet
-stability/traction control (if you're silly enough to keep them on in this car)
-radio with CD/MP3 player, AM/FM, XM, auto-volume, 6-page preset menu, 3-band EQ, 10-minute on-after-key-off feature, anti-theft, and one decent speaker
-steering wheel mounted controls
-configurable lock/unlock and horn/light settings
-automatic headlights
-2 trip odometers
-compass
-exterior temp gauge
-average mileage/speed displays
-message center
-delayed courtesy light
-heater/defroster
-rear defroster
-air conditioning (if you want it)
-cabin air filter
-huge trunk (albeit with a comically small opening)
-glove box (lockable)
-door panel storage
-center arm rest/storage
-console front storage tray
-alarm
-auto-dimming rear view mirror
-variable intermittent wipers
-windshield washer
-OnStar with lock-out protection, turn-by-turn, theft tracking, and emergency response
-a full GM warranty
-and a partridge in a pear tree

There may or may not be a couple things I forgot.


Some of you sissies need to quit whining, this thing does everything but wash the dishes for you.
Just my not-quite-humble opinion.


.

You forgot really rough ride and a lot of road noise. Both standard options.
I have two 2012 Malibu's for daily drivers, mine is just your BASE model and it has all the options you listed except the Partridge In A Pear Tree. Nice car but nothing to get excited about. I don't think there is even a Malibu?.com (have no idea what gen they are) to go on.

[revychevy]

Poor excuse?!! Some of you guys kill me, all people have been begging for is a stripped down old school track monster LS7 Z/28. They give you Exactly that and you complain that it's not an SS 2rs or a ZL1.

There is No pleasing trolls anyway.

Buy a ZL1 if you want a cruiser, or mod an SS- the Z/28 is exactly what it should be given everything they did to it (Im talking go fast turning stopping parts not your stereo listening heated cup holder big screen TV in the headrest parts.

Complainers

[Synner]

Originally Posted by Kevlar382

You forgot really rough ride and a lot of road noise. Both standard options.

You forgot some people know how to adjust a 4 way adjustable suspension if they want it smoother and there are even some people that like a car loud and rough. Both non-standard people that the car was designed for.

I really don't get all the drama and how people are getting so butt hurt over a track car that doesn't have a bunch of useless crap on it. There plenty of camaro models for the people looking for a daily driver, it's called choices. How many camaro choices were there 5 years ago? Zero. And yet people are bitching about it. This car isn't a daily driver, people need to get over it. Who's holding a gun to their head and making them buy one? No one. I could drive it every day and love it, I don't need all the distractions nor do I mind a loud and fast car.

Why can't my dedicated track car have 12 way power adjustable seats? Boohoo. Give me a break.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Kevlar382

The new Z/28 should have been the car that everybody on Camaro5 wanted, a 1LE/ LS7 and let the costumer decide what they did and did not want as far as options go. The brakes, tires, wheels, and gearing is what is making the biggest impact on lap times.

Funny, but I don't recall the Z/28 faithful ever wasting very many electrons discussing features and options not related to performance. Feel free to conclude that such stuff had a low enough priority to not matter a whole lot if they went missing.

If it really is close to $70,000, by the time a person can get one you will be able to pick up a used ZR1 that is faster and have every thing you want

This is yet another thread where some of the participants simply do not understand the car or what its character is supposed to be. Like there's some insurmountable mental barrier in the way. Those of us who do understand can explain it to you, but unfortunately we cannot do your understanding of it for you.

Hint: there is more to automotive enjoyment than brute power and ever more non-essential luxury.

It seems GM could sell a lot more Z/28s, and make more money, if they were more street friendly.

That would be the 1LE's mission. The Z/28 is targeted at maybe the 10% most hardcore of the "2%-ers" that represent the expected 1LE customer base.


I don't think there was this much commotion over not understanding the drag-race COPO cars. You either wanted it for what it was or you didn't and you didn't worry about why it could not be made to suit your personal comfort & convenience preferences.

Other than the Z/28 being fully street legal, I see no reason why the Z/28 should not enjoy that same treatment. Either enjoy it for what it is - whether or not you can afford it, or don't worry about it.

Originally Posted by Kevlar382

You forgot really rough ride and a lot of road noise. Both standard options.

If that's a deal-breaker for anybody, maybe they should just not do the deal. It's really too subjective a matter for there to be much agreement, never mind that most cars that are owner-modified for open-tracking at a similar level end up riding a good bit more firmly than stock as well.

In at least one of my (modified) daily drivers, you'd have been aware of driving over a quarter laying in the road. That car wouldn't have been for you either, but my wife and I both drove it that way for several years. Still could, 30+ years later.


Norm

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by Kevlar382

The new Z/28 should have been the car that everybody on Camaro5 wanted, a 1LE/ LS7 and let the costumer decide what they did and did not want as far as options go. The brakes, tires, wheels, and gearing is what is making the biggest impact on lap times.
If it really is close to $70,000, by the time a person can get one you will be able to pick up a used ZR1 that is faster and have every thing you want, except a back seat that no one can fit in, and won't use at the track anyway.
Is there really that many people that even live with in a couple hundred miles of a track? We are lucky living in West Michigan with two tracks that are about 30 mi away but on an average open track day there might be 6-8 cars and a hand full of bikes.
It seems GM could sell a lot more Z/28s, and make more money, if they were more street friendly. I think they owe it to the tax payers to make as much money as they can.
I have two cars, a 57 conv, and a 71 RS/Z28 that I hardly ever use because of lack of options. Can't imagine being in any hurry to buy another one.
Just my .02 worth because I wish I could get a new Z/28 the way I would want one.

Sounds like you just be happy with the badge.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I think every Z28 since 73 has been a poor excuse for a Z/28 until this one.

I agree.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Synner

You forgot some people know how to adjust a 4 way adjustable suspension if they want it smoother and there are even some people that like a car loud and rough. Both non-standard people that the car was designed for.

I really don't get all the drama and how people are getting so butt hurt over a track car that doesn't have a bunch of useless crap on it. There plenty of camaro models for the people looking for a daily driver, it's called choices. How many camaro choices were there 5 years ago? Zero. And yet people are bitching about it. This car isn't a daily driver, people need to get over it. Who's holding a gun to their head and making them buy one? No one. I could drive it every day and love it, I don't need all the distractions nor do I mind a loud and fast car.

Why can't my dedicated track car have 12 way power adjustable seats? Boohoo. Give me a break.

Excellent post!

[2cnd chance]

This car is exactly what it should be, both in concept and in name.

If you don't get it choose another from the Camaro fleet as there are plenty to pick from.

End of story.

[orthojoe]

First post here, so take it easy on me. The mere fact that I am on this forum speaks volumes for how much Chevrolet has improved on their brand. I never thought I would be a fan, but here I am today.

A lot of car manufacturers with a reputation for making cars that enthusiasts love have been moving away from their core customers in favor of selling more cars for more profit. I am talking about Porsche and BMW. They are doing exactly what some of the guys here have been asking for on the Z/28. They are making traditionally track focused cars (M3, GT3), more 'liveable' for the masses in order to sell more cars. They already make plenty of 'liveable' cars for the masses (335i, 911 carrera), but the masses want that M3/GT3 'badge' for no other reason other than to say they have it. So, they complain that the cars should have more amenities to manufacturer. The manufacturer mistakenly listens to these consumers, and add weight, complexity, and price to a car to satisfy these customers. In the short term, these companies will sell more cars. In the long term, when they lose the loyalty of their core enthusiasts, the brand will suffer.

The new Z/28 was done RIGHT. Track focused for a small segment of car buyers. The Z/28 is NOT meant for everybody. Those complaining about the liveability of the Z/28 were never meant to buy Z/28. There are plenty of other camaro models that will satisfy the needs of the majority. The Z/28 name badge provides the 'halo' to sell more of these everyday friendly cars.

I fear that all these 'complaints' about how the Z/28 is too 'bare bones' will actually be listened to by Chevrolet, and that subsequent Z/28 models will go down the same sad path that the M3 has gone down, and that the GT3 is starting to go down. I hope that the Z/28 team sticks to it's guns, reap the rewards of their choices, and continue to make a segment of cars focused on track enthusiasts that will trickle down to increased sales of their other models.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

First post here, so take it easy on me. The mere fact that I am on this forum speaks volumes for how much Chevrolet has improved on their brand. I never thought I would be a fan, but here I am today.

A lot of car manufacturers with a reputation for making cars that enthusiasts love have been moving away from their core customers in favor of selling more cars for more profit. I am talking about Porsche and BMW. They are doing exactly what some of the guys here have been asking for on the Z/28. They are making traditionally track focused cars (M3, GT3), more 'liveable' for the masses in order to sell more cars. They already make plenty of 'liveable' cars for the masses (335i, 911 carrera), but the masses want that M3/GT3 'badge' for no other reason other than to say they have it. So, they complain that the cars should have more amenities to manufacturer. The manufacturer mistakenly listens to these consumers, and add weight, complexity, and price to a car to satisfy these customers. In the short term, these companies will sell more cars. In the long term, when they lose the loyalty of their core enthusiasts, the brand will suffer.

The new Z/28 was done RIGHT. Track focused for a small segment of car buyers. The Z/28 is NOT meant for everybody. Those complaining about the liveability of the Z/28 were never meant to buy Z/28. There are plenty of other camaro models that will satisfy the needs of the majority. The Z/28 name badge provides the 'halo' to sell more of these everyday friendly cars.

I fear that all these 'complaints' about how the Z/28 is too 'bare bones' will actually be listened to by Cheverolet, and that subsequent Z/28 models will go down the same sad path that the M3 has gone down, and that the GT3 is starting to go down. I hope that the Z/28 team sticks to it's guns, reap the rewards of their choices, and continue to make a segment of cars focused on track enthusiasts that will trickle down to increased sales of their other models.

First, welcome to Camaro5. And second, well said.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

First post here, so take it easy on me. The mere fact that I am on this forum speaks volumes for how much Chevrolet has improved on their brand. I never thought I would be a fan, but here I am today.

A lot of car manufacturers with a reputation for making cars that enthusiasts love have been moving away from their core customers in favor of selling more cars for more profit. I am talking about Porsche and BMW. They are doing exactly what some of the guys here have been asking for on the Z/28. They are making traditionally track focused cars (M3, GT3), more 'liveable' for the masses in order to sell more cars. They already make plenty of 'liveable' cars for the masses (335i, 911 carrera), but the masses want that M3/GT3 'badge' for no other reason other than to say they have it. So, they complain that the cars should have more amenities to manufacturer. The manufacturer mistakenly listens to these consumers, and add weight, complexity, and price to a car to satisfy these customers. In the short term, these companies will sell more cars. In the long term, when they lose the loyalty of their core enthusiasts, the brand will suffer.

The new Z/28 was done RIGHT. Track focused for a small segment of car buyers. The Z/28 is NOT meant for everybody. Those complaining about the liveability of the Z/28 were never meant to buy Z/28. There are plenty of other camaro models that will satisfy the needs of the majority. The Z/28 name badge provides the 'halo' to sell more of these everyday friendly cars.

I fear that all these 'complaints' about how the Z/28 is too 'bare bones' will actually be listened to by Chevrolet, and that subsequent Z/28 models will go down the same sad path that the M3 has gone down, and that the GT3 is starting to go down. I hope that the Z/28 team sticks to it's guns, reap the rewards of their choices, and continue to make a segment of cars focused on track enthusiasts that will trickle down to increased sales of their other models.

Too true. The sad fact is Directors of companies are more interested in the next quarters results and year end bonuses than they are in building a brand that will survive into the future. This has always been the truth and the reason old brands die and new ones are born. Expect Kia to have a car as cool in the future as the Camaro is now. Let's just hope Camaro is still around then.

[ALLTRBO]

Sorry, haven't had much time to reply to my own thread, heh.


Orthojoe, welcome and well said!

Originally Posted by LeanPocket

I think we all assumed that as fact.

I think the issue is this,
its a $60,000 super base camaro.. :/

I think you totally missed my point. So did several others after you.

Originally Posted by molsonbrador

A partridge in a pear tree...really? F'in deal breaker. The stupid scmidt they put in cars today.

I know, right?



Now,
I purposely omitted the performance features of this car in my original post because I was making a point about the "stripped" mentality. Regardless of what every other car and its mother has standard these days (I'm not as old as I make myself sound, either) and regardless of what a Z/28 or Z28 should or shouldn't be, look at what this car does have in terms of comfort and convenience. It's simply amazing, and I don't understand how anyone could complain about it. Seriously, go read that list again.

The only omission that could be a real issue for anyone in this market segment is the lack of A/C (I've lived in some hot and humid areas... even a barely used weekend play toy would be nearly undrivable in some conditions). Oh, but you can get that too! If you can afford this car, you can afford to add A/C if you want or need it. If it helps, you can think of it this way... The Z/28 comes with standard A/C but if you don't want it then they'll take a couple $$$thousand (est.) off of the price for you.

Now if you do compare it to other cars then look just a couple few years back... luxury cars that were considered fully loaded didn't have half these features... a lot of these were as expensive or a lot more expensive.

As for taking away the sound insulation... With the way this car is built to be driven, I'd consider that an attribute. It will give a more raw feedback to the driver. My SS is darned quiet, my 2010 V6 was even more so (not counting when the metal went crunch and the airbag exploded from that red-light runner). It wouldn't hurt me at all to lose that silence for my daily driving. But even then, the Z/28 has dual-mode exhaust and therefore that part should be reasonably tame unless you don't want it to be. (Just guesses at this point, as none of us mortals know how it sounds inside yet).

Too rough a ride? Totally subjective. Some people like it rough.
Rougher than any other stock Camaro? Sounds like it. Rough as some of the modded daily driver Camaros around here? Highly doubtful. Oh and FWIW, I don't believe the suspension is user-adjustable, they were just saying that they could tune the suspension 4 ways (high damper-speed compression and rebound and low damper-speed compression and rebound) instead of the usual 2 ways (compression and rebound across the board).


Then we get into the performance aspects... From the sounds if it, in most cases, no contest. For a factory backed street legal super-high-performace car that will go lap after lap after lap after lap without any degraded performance and without questionable reliability, it will be a bargain compared to just about anything else available, even if it were to come in at $75k (My guess is in the mid-60's). End of story.

As for the "LS7 1LE" Z/28... Aside from the fact that the LS7 would bump the price enough for everyone to still complain, track performance is all about balance. More engine needs more grip, more brakes, more suspension. The 1LE is well balanced with the LS3... with the LS7 you would quickly see reports coming in that on the track it couldn't put the power down and was too tail happy, was having brake fade after a couple hard laps, was overpowering the suspension... (sounds a bit like the complaints of the '13 GT500, except this car wouldn't have the 662 hp to overshadow complaints of the imbalanced performance). Would most people be fine with that on the street? Sure... but the track junkies would be underwhelmed and annoyed that it still wasn't a well engineered track car like a Z/28 should be, and the press would slam it for its lack of balance when you could get the amazing do-it-all ZL1 for slightly more or for a lot less you could get a 1LE and have nearly the performance with much more balance and consistency.

For the record... The Z/28 isn't the car for me and even if it was I couldn't afford it... I just know what it is. And for that, it's perfect.

Anyway, it's nice outside and I've written enough for now...

[Majic]

OK...so here's my question....How many of you were around when the original Z/28 was introduced? It was basically a race car for the T/A series. It certainly waqs no luxo coupe. Except doing a reversal on the engine size...the original 302 was smaller than the 327 in most camaros...the new Z/28 follows the theme of NO FRILLS. I bet you look a long time before you find a stock 1st gen Z with factory air!!!