2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Many indeed do. And they are wrong. The Ring is a marketing vehicle far more than a test facility and many cars tested there have proven to be anything but well rounded performance cars. The Ring times are today's 1/4 numbers and just as misleading in most cases. I actually believe the ZL1 and it magno-neato suspension will make it superior to most Ring developed cars that beat both their drivers and their rims up on a regular basis when negotiating city streets and country lane ways that are a part of real world driving.

Just curious what you base the comment that the "Ring times are misleading in most cases"? You probably wouldn't make that comment if a GT500 posted better times than a ZL1 or Z06. Usually when you make a comment like that you base it on a supposed fact....just sayin'. Many auto manufacturers interested in offering "well rounded performance cars" develop their performance and standard suspension systems on the Nurburgring using the track for months to test and adjust components for the best results including Ford.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by SIRLOIN

Unless Ford shuts down the track like GM did, i don't see them providing any times for the ring... I really wish they would, but i don't see it happening unfortunately...

Kinda hard to set a really good time in traffic.

The Nurburgring is open to the public only two or three days a week. The other days are usually available for scheduling manufacturers track days. I'm sure it's expensive, but suspension component development is an expensive operation.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

Just curious what you base the comment that the "Ring times are misleading in most cases"? You probably wouldn't make that comment if a GT500 posted better times than a ZL1 or Z06. Usually when you make a comment like that you base it on a supposed fact....just sayin'. Many auto manufacturers interested in offering "well rounded performance cars" develop their performance and standard suspension systems on the Nurburgring using the track for months to test and adjust components for the best results including Ford.

I can tell you for a fact, although I can't back it up with proof for confidentiality reasons that that is exactly what they want you to think. Milbrook for example is a far better real world test track than the Ring will ever be.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

but the torque making it to the ground in the first gear of the '13 (maybe second and third) is less than how much torque made it to the ground in the previous GT500 models. It is not like they are just adding power.

...so the 662 hp is just "marketing hype"? The full 600 lb/ft is only present in the upper gears? More hype?

Why?

Tire limitations? Less-than-optimal weight distribution? A chassis unable to "cope"? Legal concerns?

Ergo, my ELECTRONICS comment...which everyone is "guilty" of (everyone offers a form of Traction Control, right?). Seems rather unnecessary to create so much power that you then need to implement systems to LIMIT said power...which, unfortunately, says as much about the drivers (and perhaps their lawyers) as the cars...

[ffrcobra_65]

With the nannies on, do you think the ZR1 or even the ZL1 is putting all its power down to the ground in low rpm's?

[LOWDOWN]

Your answer...

Ergo, my ELECTRONICS comment...which everyone is "guilty" of (everyone offers a form of Traction Control, right?).

The "fact" is, Ford's electronics will be even more invasive, what with more hp/tq, smaller tires, and less-advantageous weight distribution...and a suspension system NOT blessed with the brains of MRC-3.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

...so the 662 hp is just "marketing hype"? The full 600 lb/ft is only present in the upper gears? More hype?

Why?

Tire limitations? Less-than-optimal weight distribution? A chassis unable to "cope"? Legal concerns?

Ergo, my ELECTRONICS comment...which everyone is "guilty" of (everyone offers a form of Traction Control, right?). Seems rather unnecessary to create so much power that you then need to implement systems to LIMIT said power...which, unfortunately, says as much about the drivers (and perhaps their lawyers) as the cars...

no...they adjusted the ratios of the transmission, so that when all the ratios are accounted for the total amount of torque making it to the ground is less than before. It isn't marketing hype, it is common sense: take advantage of the new torque and you see nothing but benefits. there is more to designing a car than implementing shorter ratios, widening the tires, and adding power.

There is also more to driving than launching it from a stand still. automakers don't add power just to make the car launch harder, anything past 400 WHP is probably useless on street tires during a launch. Do you not use that extra power while you're already moving? do people who take their cars to a track other than a dragstrip not use it when exiting a turn and entering a straight?

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Your answer...



The "fact" is, Ford's electronics will be even more invasive, what with more hp/tq, smaller tires, and less-advantageous weight distribution...and a suspension system NOT blessed with the brains of MRC-3.

Meh, we'll see.

The 11-12 GT500 with all that "dis-advantageous" set up, whips the M3 and the M3 has been the pinnacle of a well balanced 4-seater performance machine. The new GT500 has more power but it will also have better suspension that should be even better around a track than the already potent 11-12 GT500. It will also come with a needed Launch Control that it didn't have before, it will help with the straight line runs.

No Mustang should even be in the same league as the 5th Gen Camaro, especially the ZL1. GM had 7+ years to engineer a car that should have been many years untouchable. GM came with a LS3 SS and competent V6and Ford came right back with a 5.0 and V6. Now the ZL1, shoot, it should be the complete GT500 slayer that it was marketed to be but it isn't. The GT500 isn't marketed as the ZL1 slayer. I like Ford's approach with their GT500, let it do the talking.

Let me ask you, what will you say IF the new GT500 outperforms the ZL1 is every performance testing venue?

New owners should start receiving their GT500s in a few weeks so it won't be long before we start seeing some real world numbers. Good times for all.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Let me ask you, what will you say IF the new GT500 outperforms the ZL1 in every performance testing venue?

'13 GT 500 = 5.77 lb/hp...illegal for any NHRA Stock/Super Stock Class...

'12 ZL1 = 7.10 lb/hp

With a 23% advantage, I'll say, "About time" (no pun).

And what will YOU say if the 500 doesn't beat the ZL1 in EVERY performance test/venue?!

[crickets...]

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

no...they adjusted the ratios of the transmission, so that when all the ratios are accounted for the total amount of torque making it to the ground is less than before. It isn't marketing hype, it is common sense: take advantage of the new torque and you see nothing but benefits. there is more to designing a car than implementing shorter ratios, widening the tires, and adding power.

There is also more to driving than launching it from a stand still. automakers don't add power just to make the car launch harder, anything past 400 WHP is probably useless on street tires during a launch. Do you not use that extra power while you're already moving? do people who take their cars to a track other than a dragstrip not use it when exiting a turn and entering a straight?

Two points come to mind...

1) Ford's desire to meet CAFE without a GG tax is now being 'splained as a "performance enhancement"?

2) Corner-exit speeds: you mean this car is supposed to eat up ZL1s @ the 'Ring...and VIR? Bring it to Lightning Lap '13 for the answer to that one... As to a 'Ring time, is it still rainin' over there? They better build an ark...

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

'13 GT 500 = 5.77 lb/hp...illegal for any NHRA Stock/Super Stock Class...

'12 ZL1 = 7.10 lb/hp

With a 23% advantage, I'll say, "About time" (no pun).

And what will YOU say if the 500 doesn't beat the ZL1 in EVERY performance test/venue?!

[crickets...]

I'd say, Icing on the cake. I will be getting a ZL1 not a GT500 and results between these two cars won't change that decision. There'll always be a better performing car, I accepted long ago. The GT500 will snack on the ZL1.

[rez333]

Originally Posted by eolson

solving the monocoque issue. Erik

What's the "monocoque issue"?

[JimmyDeanSausage]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Two points come to mind...

1) Ford's desire to meet CAFE without a GG tax is now being 'splained as a "performance enhancement.

So being able to pull as hard in first, but not have to up shift to second as soon, DOES NOT enhance performance?

You're saying Ford should have left the gearing the same? Really?

[eolson]

Since the 2013 GT500 has the same rear tires as last year, taller gears, and launch control for the first time, I would imagine the SVT team feels that the initial launch ability of the car is more controlled than ever before.

Beyond that, with traction management working through the gears, the larger amount of HP and Torque SVT feels won't hinder the car at all in 1st gear, be controlled in 2nd, and then the power will really show it's advantage in 3rd lasting the duration of the 1/4 mile.

Again, it would be nice to see the 2011 and 2012 Gt500 best 0-60, 1/4 mile and back to back road course track times directly compared to those of the ZL1.

Funny thing is, when my car was making 475rwhp or 550crankHP, and then making 507rwhp or 587crankHP, I had to feather the gas in 1st, and a bit in 2nd because I had no launch control, and the older Mustang traction control retards the acceleration a good deal below the point of a hair of slippage, but 3rd and 4th gear with the added 37or so HP and added torque was a tangible difference in acceleration and pull from my direct experience with my car.

So if controlled properly in 1st and 2nd gear, the added power of the GT500 should be quite a thrill in 3rd and 4th and 5th compared to the last model. Since the 0-60 times seem to be 3.6, I wonder what the 1/4 mile times will be?? Erik