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Old 06-02-2013, 04:54 AM   #43
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Ah, some people just like flame wars lol...
It's been said before, elsewhere, that any Dyno is really only useful for comparing your own before and after, and that's what I'm sticking to. Mine measured 406hp stock on the dynapack, so all I really care about is if I get around 411 after intake, or 430-440 after headers and intake when I eventually go back for another run. If I go to a different type of Dyno after these mods and run say 380-390 for example, there's no useful data there to represent gains from the mods.
In other words, it doesn't really matter what anybody got on a stock run, what matters is what difference they show after modding, on the same type of Dyno, same conditions, setup, etc.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:14 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by OzzySS View Post
Ah, some people just like flame wars lol...
It's been said before, elsewhere, that any Dyno is really only useful for comparing your own before and after, and that's what I'm sticking to. Mine measured 406hp stock on the dynapack, so all I really care about is if I get around 411 after intake, or 430-440 after headers and intake when I eventually go back for another run. If I go to a different type of Dyno after these mods and run say 380-390 for example, there's no useful data there to represent gains from the mods.
In other words, it doesn't really matter what anybody got on a stock run, what matters is what difference they show after modding, on the same type of Dyno, same conditions, setup, etc.
I'm with you Ozzy.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:40 AM   #45
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The LS3 was SAE certified @ 426 bhp. I think it is reasonable to believe that electronic power steering could free up, conservatively, 4 hp. I also think it's resonable to believe that NPP frees up, conservtively, 4hp. I think if GM spent the money to SAE certify the Camaro LS3 with EPS and NPP, we could see a figure of 434 bhp, or slightly more.

So, 434 x .15 = 65.1 for an accepted manual transmission loss of 15%.

434 - 65.1 = 368.9. for a good starting point for a median whp.

Let's use, say, 20 hp for manufacturing variations or other unknowns.

So, it seems that any whp figure between 348 and 388 could be seen as reasonable. Numbers well out of that range could be questionable, higher or lower.

I would consider the OP's whp figure on a hot day to be within reason, among reasonable men and women. I'll take it.
Make no istake, NPP frees up no horsepower. NONE! You folks need to stop it. NPP is the modern day equivelent to glass packs!
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:00 AM   #46
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NPP frees up horsepower in the Corvette, SAE certified, Chevy won't bother to recertify the Camaro. No big deal. It bypass some restriction. Less restriction allows less backpressure resulting in a SMALL gain.

Get your damn head out of the sand and get over it.

Edit: Not only was your above statement unnecassary, it added nothing and is probably completely wrong even if NPP only adds 1 hp.

But, I'm not perfect so, no offense taken by your opinion, just let me have mine in peace my friend.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:15 AM   #47
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Make no istake, NPP frees up no horsepower. NONE! You folks need to stop it. NPP is the modern day equivelent to glass packs!
Show us the data. Until then... We know it frees hp on the corvette. Therefore, the argument that it frees hp is grounded more in fact than your OPINION that it does not.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:37 AM   #48
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Lol

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Old 06-02-2013, 07:06 PM   #49
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Show us the data. Until then... We know it frees hp on the corvette. Therefore, the argument that it frees hp is grounded more in fact than your OPINION that it does not.
Not opinion. GM does not claim it adds any to the Camaro. They do however claim it does on the Corvette. And from these two facts you come to the conclusion that it adds it to the Camaro. Now I did ask my dealer, and they are not the end all be all authorities (even though they should be), but the answer was that NPP added no power. Putting a reduction in restriction at a point downstream of the greater restriction will not gain you anything. Enjoy the added noise if its what you want, but accept it for what it is.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:11 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by natmad View Post
NPP frees up horsepower in the Corvette, SAE certified, Chevy won't bother to recertify the Camaro. No big deal. It bypass some restriction. Less restriction allows less backpressure resulting in a SMALL gain.

Get your damn head out of the sand and get over it.

Edit: Not only was your above statement unnecassary, it added nothing and is probably completely wrong even if NPP only adds 1 hp.

But, I'm not perfect so, no offense taken by your opinion, just let me have mine in peace my friend.
It's all good. Your happy you have it, I'm glad we ordered ours to avoid it. Reductions in restriction downstream of a greater restriction does not always result in any benefit to the engine. No head in the sand, and lets enjoy our cars!i
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:44 PM   #51
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Now I did ask my dealer, and they are not the end all be all authorities (even though they should be), but the answer was that NPP added no power. Putting a reduction in restriction at a point downstream of the greater restriction will not gain you anything. Enjoy the added noise if its what you want, but accept it for what it is.
Is the NPP different upstream on the corvette over the baseline corvette exhaust? If it is, then that would explain the bump in power. If it is not, which I believe that to be the case, then how do you explain the extra power?

As far as asking the dealer... the first dealer looked at me cross eyed when I told him I wanted a 1le, he was like uh what is that? You mean a zl1? (in February 2013). Therefore, if yours is anything like that guy... I wouldn't trust his exhaust knowledge.

This has been said many times, just because gm did not certify extra power does not mean that there is not extra power. Really though, we're pissing over less than 6 hp. Therefore, we can agree to disagree and no one will be the wiser.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:16 PM   #52
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Is the NPP different upstream on the corvette over the baseline corvette exhaust? If it is, then that would explain the bump in power. If it is not, which I believe that to be the case, then how do you explain the extra power?

As far as asking the dealer... the first dealer looked at me cross eyed when I told him I wanted a 1le, he was like uh what is that? You mean a zl1? (in February 2013). Therefore, if yours is anything like that guy... I wouldn't trust his exhaust knowledge.

This has been said many times, just because gm did not certify extra power does not mean that there is not extra power. Really though, we're pissing over less than 6 hp. Therefore, we can agree to disagree and no one will be the wiser.
I agree about it not being worth the argument. I do not know much about the Vette exhaust. The Vette I test drove had a system that was controlled with a button on a fob, but the car was used, and the system may have been aftermarket. I will say one thing that I know you will agree with. My wife and I got our car Friday night, and have loved ever moment of this weekend! Have a good one! Oh and with you 100% on the dealer!
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:33 PM   #53
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Roller vs Dynapack dyno's yield different results. See my post above. No big thing, really.


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I don't disagree with you!
I simply think that it's not to relevant what your Rwhp is cause there always going to fluctuate depending on what or who's dyno your on. Whether it's a Mustang Dyno or Dyno Jet or some performance shop altering results to get more of your coin....
I do agree with that Dude Ozzy though, Dyno's are great for measuring your Mod hp gain, before and after!(as long as it's not at a performance shop )
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:04 PM   #54
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It's all about TOTAL amount of restriction in the exhaust system.

Freeing up SOME of the restriction means a little less TOTAL backpressure.

A little less backpressure frees up a little bit of power.

This is how a catback frees up a little power, and this has been proven on dynos time and time again. Even a little gain is more than none. For me, it's all about the NPP sound anyway.

NPP valve closed is like a stock exhaust.

NPP valve open equals a very small catback-like gain in power.

This should be very simple to understand.

Edit: Gajagfan, congrats on getting your ride, how 'bout some pics?

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Old 06-03-2013, 12:08 PM   #55
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It's all about TOTAL amount of restriction in the exhaust system.

Freeing up SOME of the restriction means a little less TOTAL backpressure.

A little less backpressure frees up a little bit of power.

This is how a catback frees up a little power, and this has been proven on dynos time and time again. Even a little gain is more than none.

NPP valve closed is like a stock exhaust.

NPP valve open equals a very small catback-like gain in power.

This should be very simple to understand.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:21 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by natmad View Post
It's all about TOTAL amount of restriction in the exhaust system.

Freeing up SOME of the restriction means a little less TOTAL backpressure.

A little less backpressure frees up a little bit of power.

This is how a catback frees up a little power, and this has been proven on dynos time and time again. Even a little gain is more than none.

NPP valve closed is like a stock exhaust.

NPP valve open equals a very small catback-like gain in power.

This should be very simple to understand.
If that were always the case, it would be very easy to understand, but it is not. If you have a greater restriction up stream, reducing some restriction at the end (in this case the muffler) will not help the engine. I believe this to be the case with the Camaro. Folks used to put loud mufflers on cars without changing out exhaust manifolds for headers, and there was no gain even though the new mufflers were less restrictive. That is why some exhaust mods do not have any measurable HP gains, even though the sound may be more desirable to the car owner.
I guess my opinion is that if there is any gain, which I doubt, it is trumped by the increase in noise. I have no problem with competition vehicles being loud because the goal is to get as much out of the vehicle as possible, but minimal gains are not worth the noise. This may all be because I am older than probably many on this site. I would still love to see a before and after NPP test, but that may never happen
As far as the cat back systems, having worked in the racing / performance industry for 15 years before my new career, don't believe every dyno result, especially those where the testing is done by the manufacturer.
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