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Old 11-16-2011, 10:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabs View Post


Plus couldnt the GT500 owners also get a tune from Rousch and have it at 700?
That's why that argument never made sense to me. With enough money, someone could make a Smartcar outperform many performance cars.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:10 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Kluch View Post
Yes, but the mods will VOID your waranty. You can mod anything and make it a beast, but getting it to come that way with a factory powertrain waranty is why people are so deflated by Ford's announcement.

You gotta pay to play...who needs a warranty. I lost mine 2 days after i drove the car off the lot. I will kill any ZL-1 strip or road course and i have 4 k less into it than a base ZL1. this is just my opinion though.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Revo1 View Post
..all Ford does anyway is wait for GM to make a move, then 1-up it. Stupid... Give GM a couple years and they'll answer back.
That's the funniest post I've read about the "battle", yet. I believe that the 1-up thing is called.... BUSINESS. Ford has done it right, and upstaged the killer ZL1 before it was even available. Why? - Because they can.
They want to sell cars; that's their business. Car fans who want the bragging rights of max power available from a factory offering, will surely be checking out that 650 hp. They won't need to void a warranty, they won't have to think about smog checks, or what their mods will do to reliability, street manners, or fuel economy. The 2013 Ford will be the most powerful factory hotrod around in 2013, and that's the way Ford wanted it.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:26 AM   #32
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Well said!



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Originally Posted by oldlugs View Post
That's the funniest post I've read about the "battle", yet. I believe that the 1-up thing is called.... BUSINESS. Ford has done it right, and upstaged the killer ZL1 before it was even available. Why? - Because they can.
They want to sell cars; that's their business. Car fans who want the bragging rights of max power available from a factory offering, will surely be checking out that 650 hp. They won't need to void a warranty, they won't have to think about smog checks, or what their mods will do to reliability, street manners, or fuel economy. The 2013 Ford will be the most powerful factory hotrod around in 2013, and that's the way Ford wanted it.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:09 AM   #33
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Not knowing what would happen. But what if chevy
Decided to swap the tsv 1900 for a 2300 and bumped
But bump boost from 9lbs to 15 lbs. and still
Keep the warranty in tact? Someone try it on a lsa and let
Me know your dyno results.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:47 PM   #34
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Well said!

True
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:52 PM   #35
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I know everyone here loves the LS series but if GM wants to compete... I mean really compete, they need to get with the times as the blown 32V V8 DOHC will always out power a blown 16V pushrod design... Sorry.
Not buying it...

that motor is heavy and lacks lower end torque. has an unreal top end... but..

I think when you forge an LSA... crank up the boost lower the CR a tad... these two can go toe to toe...

I think they are just using two different ways to get there. One is not better than the other... just different.

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Old 11-16-2011, 01:53 PM   #36
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You do know that they (GT500 owners) can do the same with their cars and then be still ahead.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:59 PM   #37
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For all those crying about the 650 HP on the 2013 GT500 just go to a tuner like the boys at Lingenfelter to solve your problem and match the new Ford. For less than $5k and only 4 days worth of downtime you too can have 650 HP on your ZL1........
And also have to pay for any repairs yourself if anything in the engine or drivetrain breaks........no thanks.

I hate to say it, but by Ford managed to squarely kick GM AND the ZL1 squarely in the nuts
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:02 PM   #38
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I never said lack of torque.. I'm completely aware of what a blown small block is capable of from a torque perspective.

But that's not what it the DOHC is best at... it's best at mid to high end power that just keeps pulling...

LS motors are able to spin up more quickly due to the less intricate valve train... hence it is better at low end torque ...

which isn't always good. even at 630 at the crank with the suspension I have... I can't make mine stick on street tires. so enough torque is never the issue.... LOL

Where each motor shows it's strength is what I was addressing.
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by MY68RS View Post
Not knowing what would happen. But what if chevy
Decided to swap the tsv 1900 for a 2300 and bumped
But bump boost from 9lbs to 15 lbs. and still
Keep the warranty in tact? Someone try it on a lsa and let
Me know your dyno results.

No way they do that with cast pistons.
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:44 PM   #40
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Take the mid-high end power of DOHC, combine it with the insane low end torque of a positive displacement blower, and you get the best of both worlds. The blown DOHC already has plenty of torque, having more wouldn't be a benefit in my eyes.

I was only discussing that an LS motor, due to it's less intricate valve train spins up faster helping it make low end torque...

But not as good at high end power...

Vice versa for the DOHC Ford.

push rods are better at low end torque, DOHC is better at mid to high power.
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:13 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Shurenuff View Post
GM has marketed this car brilliantly and it has payed big dividends, but it has also bit them in the ass a bit in regards to making it easier for the competition.
I don't think that the marketing for the ZL1 has been brilliant. GM should never have announced the ZL1, and its specification and performance numbers when they did.

Look back at how GM unveiled the 1967 Camaro. It was done in a way that did not tip Chevrolet's hand too early.

There had been rumors for two years that Chevrolet was working on a competitor to the Mustang, but nothing had been officially stated or released regarding the vehicle by Chevrolet.

Then on Tuesday and Wednesday, June 21 and 22, 1966, 200 journalists were sent telegrams announcing a SEPAW meeting on Wednesday, June 29, 1966. On Wednesday, June 29, 1966, a conference call meeting was held with some 150 to 200 journalists across 14 cities in the United States, which was the first and last meeting of SEPAW, where Pete Estes announced that Chevrolet would be releasing a new model in its 1967 lineup on Thursday, September 29, 1966.

Mr Estes stated that since April 8, 1965, when a Detroit newspaper published an article stating the Chevrolet was producing a "Panther" to answer the horsey offering of a competitor, those in the press, radio, and television had literally designed, built, and marketed the Chevrolet “Panther” to the point were Chevrolet received irate letters from customers and phone calls demanding all specifications and price so they could place orders. Mr Estes stated that Chevrolet has frequently responded ‘what Panther?’ to such inquiries.

Mr. Estes then announced press previews of the new car in Detroit on Monday, September 12, 1966, and in Los Angeles on Monday, September 19, 1966, and he mentioned that the name of the new vehicle would be the Camaro.

No specifications were released regarding Camaro in that June 1966 meeting.

The Camaro appeared on Chevrolet showrooms on Thursday, September 29, 1966, just three months after its official announcement leaving little time for competitors to react.

In my opinion, that is more like how the ZL1 should have been marketed.
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:09 PM   #42
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I feel the ZL1 is the better car here. I think it will be interesting to see them go head to head. I put my money on the ZL1, I've seen enough of the GT500's problems in the past on the track where its proven before that HP didn't mean crap.
What kills me is seeing the online ford articles where they actually think it's gonna beat the ZR1.




2013 is still a long way off and who knows what GM may have up there sleeve for the ZL1 or even possibly... dare I say it.... Z28.
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