Wheel studs with more threads - solution I used - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Blue70SS · 02-21-2011, 10:11 AM

So here's the problem I had:

I purchased new Forgeline wheels and Bogart wheels - both could not achieve 9.33 turns of wheel nut that would put them at NHRA specs that require the wheel nut to be bolted on the diameter of the stud being used. Basically our 14mm wide studs use a 1.5mm thread pitch.... 14 divided by 1.5 is 9.33 threads being used to satisfy requirement. I'm only using the NHRA requirements as a safety benchline because that's what I've found and OEM wheels achieve this already - must be something behind it. As for if I'm using the correct studs and nuts IF I were a racer, I have not checked on - but might be useful info for others and welcome to this thread. I'm sure there are harder studs out there, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't replacing studs with ones that might prevent me from going back to OEM and readily available. Beside, our studs are already truck studs that torque to 150 ft lbs!

My fix is a spin off thread started by "blazzin1" Wheel Stud Problem... Thanks blazzin1!
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124590

Now this fix does require modification to the studs I purchased and minor mod of front wheel knuckle casting - but I'm pretty sure an "allthread" version of the studs would have the same installation problems I encountered that required the slight modification. I did not complete this for my rear studs at this point since I gained 1.33 threads due to the rotors I'm using and am closer to the 9.33 threads needed (but might do later).

Please don't get lost in this part - it still applys to OEM part cars regardless. I have Racing Brake 2 piece rotors on all 4 corners. They are 4.5 lbs lighter on front rotors, and 6 lbs lighter for rears. The thickness of the center hubs on OEM rotors is 9mm, these are 7mm for wieght savings. So initially I gain 2mm of usable thread length. One small problem... aftermarket high end wheel makers are using very tight tolorances to clear the SS brakes. This 2mm difference took me down to ~.25mm clearance on my front calipers. Lingenfelter suggested I use a 1/8" spacer (3.175mm) and before anyone shoots down spacers, these are extremely thin and problem with big wheel spacers is loss of threads and additional torque on parts. This fix for me lost 1.175mm, which is .78 threads (turns of nut).

I used GM part# 11588810 which is from a 2004 Siverado 2500... probably other vehicles too. Our existing ones are #11588811 and measure 64mm total part length versus 71mm for Silverado studs. My finalized studs were all between 63 - 63.5mm total length (I began trying for 64, but then matched up to shortest one). I would suggest shooting for 63mm total length.

I ground off the entire area using 2 different wheels, 2nd one was finer. This could be done quicker probably by cutting off majority with a portaband or chop saw.

Removing the studs was easy. I was told one good hit on the stud with a small sledge hammer usually removes them. It took me about 2-3 lighter hits, but I didn't want to chance bearing damage, even though they hit them out with one hit all the time. To save my existing studs, I used 2 nuts on the threads and covered the stud end with an allthread coupler that had a bolt inserted. If you're tossing the old stud..... hammer away!

Next step is to use a wheel grinder to remove enough material to allow the modified stud clearance for installation. Grind, test fit, grind, test fit.... you get the idea. Only remove enough for installation. In my opinion the area removed seemed extremely safe and not a critical strength issue. I've seen much more modification on Jeeps that take a beating without any problems.
Now somebody my ask, "why not just remove the entire hub with bearing". I thought this would be crazy to have to do anytime a stud might need replacement, deal with rusty bolts, big vise, etc.

Installation of new studs was made easy with use of an air tool, 2 nuts and 3 big washers to draw the stud through.

Please ask questions if anything is unclear and I can update info.
Hope this helps someone.... Thanks again blazzin1 !

Blue70SS · 02-21-2011, 10:12 AM

reserved for any additional info

Topdown · 02-22-2011, 03:26 PM

upgraded wheel studs, excellent find! I have done this nearly identical thing on every old pickup I have ever owned, quick and painless way to stay safe.

PfadtRacing · 02-24-2011, 06:18 PM

If you guys are looking for a less DIY solution we have just released our Extended Wheel Studs. They are 92mm in total length and provide an extra 19mm of thread over the stock lugs. Made from 4340 Steel Alloy for excelent strength, and feature a Teflon-Molybdenum for anti-galling and low friction.

Blue70SS · 02-24-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PfadtRacing

If you guys are looking for a less DIY solution we have just released our Extended Wheel Studs. They are 92mm in total length and provide an extra 19mm of thread over the stock lugs. Made from 4340 Steel Alloy for excelent strength, and feature a Teflon-Molybdenum for anti-galling and low friction.

Thanks, those will work great for the track guys!

The bearing/hub assembly will need to be completely removed for installation or replacing single studs. Only drawback obviously is you can't use closed lug nuts for your dressy wheels. Are there also ones that are 62-64mm range that would still have about 3-4 more threads so could be a kinda dual purpose stud? (like mostly allthread version)

For road racing guys info and curiousity:
- Are open nuts required to visably see enough threads used?
- Is a certain type of hardness required beyond our OEM ones?

Got your solid subframe bushings installed yesterday.... alot easier than I first thought, and WOW do they feel good - no more wandering rear subframe!

CYBER69 · 02-25-2011, 09:09 AM

Can you cut down the ARP wheel Studs? My problem is that I had Vaughn Machine section and extend my stock silver midnight wheels to 10.750 ( should of kept them at 10.5) so now with the 315 Dunlop will rub the inner wheel well. My fix was a 15mm (.590) hub centric spacer which should move the tire away from the inner well and provide a nice outer edge look. I want to keep the acorn style nut.... I thought it would be easy to get a stud with an additional 1/2 to 5/8 extension with no sucess. Looks like the only fix is a "ARP" 3" stud. Thats why I ask the question "can you cut them down or do you know of a better solution?

And when they say "Overall length" are they (stud manufactures) talking overall or from the inside of the flange?

Blue70SS · 02-28-2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYBER69

Can you cut down the ARP wheel Studs? My problem is that I had Vaughn Machine section and extend my stock silver midnight wheels to 10.750 ( should of kept them at 10.5) so now with the 315 Dunlop will rub the inner wheel well. My fix was a 15mm (.590) hub centric spacer which should move the tire away from the inner well and provide a nice outer edge look. I want to keep the acorn style nut.... I thought it would be easy to get a stud with an additional 1/2 to 5/8 extension with no sucess. Looks like the only fix is a "ARP" 3" stud. Thats why I ask the question "can you cut them down or do you know of a better solution?

And when they say "Overall length" are they (stud manufactures) talking overall or from the inside of the flange?

Not sure how the stud manufacturers are stating lengths, but Pfadt would probably be more than happy to answer questions. Try calling them direct - they've been real helpfull. It sounds like they're comparing like measurements compared to my measurements..... "total length" and "additional threads over stock"

PfadtRacing · 03-01-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue70SS

Not sure how the stud manufacturers are stating lengths, but Pfadt would probably be more than happy to answer questions. Try calling them direct - they've been real helpfull. It sounds like they're comparing like measurements compared to my measurements..... "total length" and "additional threads over stock"

When we posted our info total length refers to just that, the length from the bottom of the shank to the tip of the bullet nose. 19mm more usable threads constitutes a big improvement over stock and allows for more aggressive offsets and spacer combinations.

If you've got any more questions let me know!

02-21-2011, 10:12 AM	#2
Blue70SS Drives: 10 LS3 2SSRS IOM,21 ZLE Wild Cherry Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 2,126	reserved for any additional info __________________ LPE 650+,IOM Pearl White Rallys 860 RWHP 924 RWTQ,TVS2300 10/14 OD 2.75/NW 102mm,RDS/FLOWED "109" SHOT/LPE NCC NLP spoiler/GM splitter/Torq HE-fans/oil coolers/IC1000cc Squash twins,GT9,Coil Covers,Mats,Pedals/ADM Gauges,Race Scoop/Trunions DDS CVs,Carbon F DS/RPM L6/LPE 9.5 3.73/Pedders HD bushes,align kit RB 2-piece rotors,S/S Lines,Hawk HPE Pads/Forgeline SP3P/Weld RTS Ceramic ARH 2" LT/3" X-pipe,Corsa Touring/BMR TA,Toe,LCA,DS Loop StreetSlayer BC3/MTI Shifter-Trans mt/Hotchkis CB/Monster CC/SJM LineLock PFADT Coil Overs,Sways,Links,Mounts,SF Bushes,Camber Kit LPE Brotherhood . Last edited by Blue70SS; 02-22-2011 at 08:42 AM.

02-22-2011, 03:26 PM	#3
Topdown The wait is over! Drives: 2010 Camaro, IOM, L99, Auto Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Washington Posts: 1,081	upgraded wheel studs, excellent find! I have done this nearly identical thing on every old pickup I have ever owned, quick and painless way to stay safe. __________________ Ordered - 4/17/2010 Delivered - 5/29/2010 AlphaDamp CLD Mat - Get more Sound Deadening with less Sound Deadener

02-25-2011, 09:09 AM	#6
CYBER69 NEMESIS (NEMI-"SS") Drives: 2011 2SS-LS3, BLACK W/CYBER STRIPES Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SAN DIEGO Posts: 144	Rear Wheel stud Length question Can you cut down the ARP wheel Studs? My problem is that I had Vaughn Machine section and extend my stock silver midnight wheels to 10.750 ( should of kept them at 10.5) so now with the 315 Dunlop will rub the inner wheel well. My fix was a 15mm (.590) hub centric spacer which should move the tire away from the inner well and provide a nice outer edge look. I want to keep the acorn style nut.... I thought it would be easy to get a stud with an additional 1/2 to 5/8 extension with no sucess. Looks like the only fix is a "ARP" 3" stud. Thats why I ask the question "can you cut them down or do you know of a better solution? And when they say "Overall length" are they (stud manufactures) talking overall or from the inside of the flange? __________________ 1969 RS/SS Lemans Blue 396-350HP Convertible - Orig. Owner and 2011 RS/SS Black/Black Coupe - PFADT Stage-II, CAI, Richmond 4:33's, Barton Flat Stick-Short Throw, KOOK's ceramic LT's, Comp Stage II Cam, QuickTime cut-outs, Ryne Cunningham Custom Tune, Flowmaster, Heritage Grille, Eric Vaughn "widened" wheels w/ 315 Dunlops, MPD1 R.Spoiler & Dave Kahn "Buried" Cyber Grey Metallic Stripes.... 593HP / 517RWHP. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by CYBER69; 12-17-2011 at 10:48 PM.

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02-21-2011, 10:11 AM	#1
Blue70SS Drives: 10 LS3 2SSRS IOM,21 ZLE Wild Cherry Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 2,126	Wheel studs with more threads - solution I used So here's the problem I had: I purchased new Forgeline wheels and Bogart wheels - both could not achieve 9.33 turns of wheel nut that would put them at NHRA specs that require the wheel nut to be bolted on the diameter of the stud being used. Basically our 14mm wide studs use a 1.5mm thread pitch.... 14 divided by 1.5 is 9.33 threads being used to satisfy requirement. I'm only using the NHRA requirements as a safety benchline because that's what I've found and OEM wheels achieve this already - must be something behind it. As for if I'm using the correct studs and nuts IF I were a racer, I have not checked on - but might be useful info for others and welcome to this thread. I'm sure there are harder studs out there, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't replacing studs with ones that might prevent me from going back to OEM and readily available. Beside, our studs are already truck studs that torque to 150 ft lbs! My fix is a spin off thread started by "blazzin1" Wheel Stud Problem... Thanks blazzin1! http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124590 Now this fix does require modification to the studs I purchased and minor mod of front wheel knuckle casting - but I'm pretty sure an "allthread" version of the studs would have the same installation problems I encountered that required the slight modification. I did not complete this for my rear studs at this point since I gained 1.33 threads due to the rotors I'm using and am closer to the 9.33 threads needed (but might do later). Please don't get lost in this part - it still applys to OEM part cars regardless. I have Racing Brake 2 piece rotors on all 4 corners. They are 4.5 lbs lighter on front rotors, and 6 lbs lighter for rears. The thickness of the center hubs on OEM rotors is 9mm, these are 7mm for wieght savings. So initially I gain 2mm of usable thread length. One small problem... aftermarket high end wheel makers are using very tight tolorances to clear the SS brakes. This 2mm difference took me down to ~.25mm clearance on my front calipers. Lingenfelter suggested I use a 1/8" spacer (3.175mm) and before anyone shoots down spacers, these are extremely thin and problem with big wheel spacers is loss of threads and additional torque on parts. This fix for me lost 1.175mm, which is .78 threads (turns of nut). I used GM part# 11588810 which is from a 2004 Siverado 2500... probably other vehicles too. Our existing ones are #11588811 and measure 64mm total part length versus 71mm for Silverado studs. My finalized studs were all between 63 - 63.5mm total length (I began trying for 64, but then matched up to shortest one). I would suggest shooting for 63mm total length. I ground off the entire area using 2 different wheels, 2nd one was finer. This could be done quicker probably by cutting off majority with a portaband or chop saw. Removing the studs was easy. I was told one good hit on the stud with a small sledge hammer usually removes them. It took me about 2-3 lighter hits, but I didn't want to chance bearing damage, even though they hit them out with one hit all the time. To save my existing studs, I used 2 nuts on the threads and covered the stud end with an allthread coupler that had a bolt inserted. If you're tossing the old stud..... hammer away! Next step is to use a wheel grinder to remove enough material to allow the modified stud clearance for installation. Grind, test fit, grind, test fit.... you get the idea. Only remove enough for installation. In my opinion the area removed seemed extremely safe and not a critical strength issue. I've seen much more modification on Jeeps that take a beating without any problems. Now somebody my ask, "why not just remove the entire hub with bearing". I thought this would be crazy to have to do anytime a stud might need replacement, deal with rusty bolts, big vise, etc. Installation of new studs was made easy with use of an air tool, 2 nuts and 3 big washers to draw the stud through. Please ask questions if anything is unclear and I can update info. Hope this helps someone.... Thanks again blazzin1 ! Attached Images __________________ LPE 650+,IOM Pearl White Rallys 860 RWHP 924 RWTQ,TVS2300 10/14 OD 2.75/NW 102mm,RDS/FLOWED "109" SHOT/LPE NCC NLP spoiler/GM splitter/Torq HE-fans/oil coolers/IC1000cc Squash twins,GT9,Coil Covers,Mats,Pedals/ADM Gauges,Race Scoop/Trunions DDS CVs,Carbon F DS/RPM L6/LPE 9.5 3.73/Pedders HD bushes,align kit RB 2-piece rotors,S/S Lines,Hawk HPE Pads/Forgeline SP3P/Weld RTS Ceramic ARH 2" LT/3" X-pipe,Corsa Touring/BMR TA,Toe,LCA,DS Loop StreetSlayer BC3/MTI Shifter-Trans mt/Hotchkis CB/Monster CC/SJM LineLock PFADT Coil Overs,Sways,Links,Mounts,SF Bushes,Camber Kit LPE Brotherhood . Last edited by Blue70SS; 02-21-2011 at 10:16 PM.

02-24-2011, 06:18 PM	#4
PfadtRacing Drives: 2010 Camaro, 2006 Z06 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 3,370	If you guys are looking for a less DIY solution we have just released our Extended Wheel Studs. They are 92mm in total length and provide an extra 19mm of thread over the stock lugs. Made from 4340 Steel Alloy for excelent strength, and feature a Teflon-Molybdenum for anti-galling and low friction.