09-15-2015, 04:27 PM | #1 |
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6 Black on Black Join Date: Jan 2010
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Posts: 1,243
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416 or Cam & Heads?
My SS is my DD and has almost 90,000 miles on it. I've got all the suspension goodies and Kooks headers and Magnaflow 3" cat-back, Ported throttle body. I want more power and would really prefer to go the forged route. The cost is the only thing holding me back.
I figure a 416 and install labor and tune would cost about $12K (correct me if I'm wrong), and ported heads and a cam (with all the other stuff--oil pump, timing chain, etc) would run about $5K (correct me if I'm wrong). I started thinking even though my stock engine has 90,000 miles and would really need a head rebuild, trunion upgrade, etc, it runs great and doesn't use or burn any oil, it should be worth something if I sell it. I'm an old fart and seldom rev the engine over 5,000 rpm. I've maybe hit 6,000 rpm once or twice in 4 years. I believe that Grannie driving would change after installing a 416 with 480-500 rwhp. I know there's probably not much of a market for an LS3 with 90,000 miles, but how much do you think I could get for the long block? Is there a reputable forged engine builder that might take my long block as a trade-in? Any suggestions on where I should get a quality forged 416? I think I might be able to get between $2K and $3K for my complete long block. That whittles the $7,000 price difference down to $4 or $5K and would make my out of pocket about $9-$10K, which I think I could swing. What do you all think? Thanks for your input.
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Meh
Last edited by My 5th; 09-15-2015 at 04:28 PM. Reason: add text |
09-15-2015, 04:47 PM | #2 |
Helping Build America
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS,LS3 2013 Duramax 3500HD Join Date: Aug 2008
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If I could choose I would go forged stroker vs heads on a 90K LS. You can do so much with a forged bottom later on. I have 93K on mine with the 2nd performance cam. Runs great, never burns oil and it's been cammed since 10k miles. I just think at 90K adding power has to have some impact on main bearings. Others may chime in and say they will last longer. Haven't seen much talk about mains and rings and how long they last on stock or mostly stock LS engines. Let's see what others think.
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09-15-2015, 04:53 PM | #3 |
All About That Speed
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If you're stuck on the other two options then I would say go 416...If you are thinking about it now, you're going to do it later...when you do it later you're going to have to put in a different cam at a minimum, possibly different heads depending on what cam goes in there you may want to mill the heads for compression or get different chamber sizes anyway.
You're probably correct on your long block selling price of 2-3k...maybe a little more.
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2010 SS M6 | 416 CI | H/C/I | GPI TUNED | SNSSTR |
09-15-2015, 04:56 PM | #4 |
All About That Speed
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2013
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Also, if you pull the engine to put in a 416, please do yourself a favor - Since your stock clutch has 90k miles, get it out of there, change the clutch to at minimum a mantic er2 and change out that stock slave cylinder. You're already going to be in there so there's no reason not to at that kind of mileage.
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2010 SS M6 | 416 CI | H/C/I | GPI TUNED | SNSSTR |
09-16-2015, 06:45 AM | #5 | |
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^^^ Upgrade your clutch. I don't race and mine's almost toast. Here's a few shops I can think of. Texas Speed and Power Florida Speed and Power (Fountain Race Engines) ERL HKE I know there are more, that's just what comes to mind right now.
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Taco's 2014 SS
Mods: 417 Stroker | CAI | Bo's PTB | Kooks LTs | Flowmaster Outlaw Catback | Night Fury Cam | Powerbond UDP | Apex Catch Can |PRC Ported Heads |FAST 102 Intake |Suspension Crap| Built by J-Rod. |
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09-16-2015, 03:39 PM | #6 |
Drives: 2017 2SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WNY
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if you can swing a 417 sell LS3 to someone who needs another 150,000+ more miles out of it. if not i wouldn't worry about putting a cam in a well maintained LS with 100,000 miles on it. lifters would have to be replaced though.
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real ZL1 wheels and brakes, 285/305 Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Pray ported Intake manifold, Soler Throttle Body, Rotofab intake, EFI Tuning Flex fuel kit, full American Racing Headers Exhaust, 1 7/8" w/ cats H pipe and mufflers. Full 1LE suspension, with BMR adjustable sway bars and links, GM aluminum cradle bushings, Hurst shifter with lighter reverse spring, TWM shifter knob, Tick level 1 transmission. I should have bought a ZL1
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09-16-2015, 06:59 PM | #7 |
old school chevy rodder
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012
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You should be able no problem with your engine to get a cam installed. You probably have at least 100 thousand more miles before time to worry about some compression test. I agree the lifters are toast so pulling the heads is required and you could like I have: gone cost effective with new GMPP ported heads that are only $1200. I got mine from Summit and switching the Springs would be that much easier with the heads off and you could really check out your bore.
A stroker will make more torque which is nice but not necessarily the easiest most cost effective way to make power as our cars are undercammed and can gain easy 75 h.p. from a cam swap and tune depending on how radical you want to go. I would also with the miles on your car want to change out the rocker arms maybe just for safeties sake as its cost effective preventative maintenance. Don't believe: look at the 525 hp ASA cam shaft crate engine...... same exact engine but tighter LSA cam with more duration and LESS lift than our stock cam at .525..........not .550.
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09-16-2015, 10:56 PM | #8 |
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6 Black on Black Join Date: Jan 2010
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Thanks for the input. One thing about modding--it never stops. I had also thought I would replace the clutch--probably with a ZR1 twin disk, and possibly go to a 3.91 pumpkin. I'll just have to see how much wallet is left after deciding on the motor.
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Meh
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09-16-2015, 11:01 PM | #9 |
Drives: 2017 2SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2013
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with a 416 your going to have more power then the SS diff can handle
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real ZL1 wheels and brakes, 285/305 Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Pray ported Intake manifold, Soler Throttle Body, Rotofab intake, EFI Tuning Flex fuel kit, full American Racing Headers Exhaust, 1 7/8" w/ cats H pipe and mufflers. Full 1LE suspension, with BMR adjustable sway bars and links, GM aluminum cradle bushings, Hurst shifter with lighter reverse spring, TWM shifter knob, Tick level 1 transmission. I should have bought a ZL1
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09-17-2015, 08:33 AM | #10 | |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS Join Date: Feb 2014
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Quote:
I am, however, planning on a zl1 rear-end setup soon, as I'm hoping to SC my car eventually. The "problem" with the 416 is that you don't make super huge gains after the build (I'm at ~470whp/465tq), but when you start putting on power adders (SC/turbos/etc) the potential power you can make increases dramatically. THAT'S when you really need the upgraded driveline... |
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09-17-2015, 09:02 AM | #11 |
All About That Speed
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Memphis
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I agree...stock SS diff will handle the power from the 416 just fine. Mine is.
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09-17-2015, 11:24 AM | #12 |
Drives: 2017 2SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WNY
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so far. 500 hp is about all its good for. after going back to read why its the limited slip and axles that fail in the 500hp range
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real ZL1 wheels and brakes, 285/305 Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Pray ported Intake manifold, Soler Throttle Body, Rotofab intake, EFI Tuning Flex fuel kit, full American Racing Headers Exhaust, 1 7/8" w/ cats H pipe and mufflers. Full 1LE suspension, with BMR adjustable sway bars and links, GM aluminum cradle bushings, Hurst shifter with lighter reverse spring, TWM shifter knob, Tick level 1 transmission. I should have bought a ZL1
Last edited by JCunningham; 09-17-2015 at 12:13 PM. |
09-18-2015, 08:52 AM | #13 |
Drives: Camaro Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Texas
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Are you doing install yourself? I think you can do heads cam & 418 for less than that.. Honestly probably even install under 12 grand.... A TSP long block would give you plenty of money left to have it installed & you'd have your stock long block to sell
http://www.texas-speed.com/c-760-376...ng-blocks.aspx |
09-18-2015, 05:40 PM | #14 | |
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6 Black on Black Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
I used to do my own wrenching when I was younger, but those days are way behind me now. In addition, my wife would never allow me to take over our small 2-car garage for the tear-down and install. Besides, then she'd know I was spending some $$$ on my mistress. That would not be healthy for me.
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