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Old 09-17-2009, 10:39 AM   #15
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Not really, perception is actuality. Buyers are going to be pissed that their brand new car looks mismatched intended from the factory or not. This topic will never end.
Just like stupid people still making babies. The cycle will never end. If it weren't for these people, who would the world laugh at? If the thread dies, so will my laughter.:(
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:53 AM   #16
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Well I agree with the bulletin however it's no secret that the early cars had color issues with the parts painted by the suppliers (front and rear fascias, gas filler door, RS roof strips). The key is to look at the gas filler door - if it is off color, the complaint is probably valid.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:54 AM   #17
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Nice catch.

Thanks for the info
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:56 AM   #18
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It's all in your head people...move along now.....
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:00 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
Well I agree with the bulletin however it's no secret that the early cars had color issues with the parts painted by the suppliers (front and rear fascias, gas filler door, RS roof strips). The key is to look at the gas filler door - if it is off color, the complaint is probably valid.
OR...the gas door is slightly out of adjustment and the angle is different.

Statements like these will send the conspiracy theorists running to their dealer to get their filler door repainted because they are SURE it is wrong. We saw this with some of the Grand Prix and Firebird crowd at the dealership I was at...a TSB would come out and they would come in SURE they had the problem...even though upon reading the TSB was for one engine and they had another.

Were there paint problems? Maybe. What constitutes early? Is it just being an R6P car? What if the R6P has just been built? If it isn't a secret that some cars had problems, where does the VIN break occur so that those affected can know to check?

If we continue to post generalized statements about occurrences, this board will become as bad about misinformation as some of the others I frequent.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:10 AM   #20
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OR...the gas door is slightly out of adjustment and the angle is different.

Statements like these will send the conspiracy theorists running to their dealer to get their filler door repainted because they are SURE it is wrong. We saw this with some of the Grand Prix and Firebird crowd at the dealership I was at...a TSB would come out and they would come in SURE they had the problem...even though upon reading the TSB was for one engine and they had another.

Were there paint problems? Maybe. What constitutes early? Is it just being an R6P car? What if the R6P has just been built? If it isn't a secret that some cars had problems, where does the VIN break occur so that those affected can know to check?

If we continue to post generalized statements about occurrences, this board will become as bad about misinformation as some of the others I frequent.
My comments come from discussing this issue with people who work at the plant. The supplier was asked to change the color to match the plant paint. If you do not believe me, I suggest you take a look at a recently built car painted in RJT and park it next to one painted in the first month of production and look for your self.

Btw - do you even own a 2010 Camaro? Didn't think so.....enjoy your 350Z!
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:20 AM   #21
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..and there we have it. Thanks GM for the definitive explanation and photos.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:28 AM   #22
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Hylton...I guess I should know not to "argue" with you... I was trying to point out an issue...that's all.

Do I own a Camaro...think that's been answered before.

Didn't know that is a requirement...if so, better get quite a few people off this board!!! I'll leave if the Mods ask me to. I will order a Camaro when the timing is right. I've owned numerous F-bodies over the years, so I've earned my stripes with GM F-bodies. Before you ask, no I don't have a first gen, never have, but its on the list too. I love the Camaro and always will.

Do I enjoy the 350z...yes. Do I enjoy the '09 Vette parked right next to it? Yes. Do I enjoy the 50 chevy pickup, 67 chevy pickup, and 82 Firebird MSE at the house too? Yes. Does that answer all your questions?

I was just pointing out that statements like you made about "early" cars are a sure way to make a technician's life hell. If someone has a different idea of "early" than you do...you're potentially creating unneccessary work at a dealership level.Technicians have to work one customer concern as much as any other. Do they get paid a penny for messing with someone's car that doesn't have a problem? Not unless they've got a generous service manager.

Most technicians at the dealerships are good honest people trying to make a living (I know, I've been there). Its hard work and the pay sure isn't what it used to be. In days past, a technician made 50% of what the shop's hourly rate was. These days, they are lucky to get 20%...plus there is more training to do than in years past, more technical data to keep track of...you name it.

My intent was not to slam you, but to get people to think before they reacted to a statement that the early cars had a problem. Its like getting sick, if you wake up and say I'm not feeling good...your body may just help you out. If you walk out to your car expecting to see a paint problem...you probably will.

No ill will intended.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:36 AM   #23
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Hylton...I guess I should know not to "argue" with you... I was trying to point out an issue...that's all.

Do I own a Camaro...think that's been answered before.

Didn't know that is a requirement...if so, better get quite a few people off this board!!! I'll leave if the Mods ask me to. I will order a Camaro when the timing is right. I've owned numerous F-bodies over the years, so I've earned my stripes with GM F-bodies. Before you ask, no I don't have a first gen, never have, but its on the list too. I love the Camaro and always will.

Do I enjoy the 350z...yes. Do I enjoy the '09 Vette parked right next to it? Yes. Do I enjoy the 50 chevy pickup, 67 chevy pickup, and 82 Firebird MSE at the house too? Yes. Does that answer all your questions?

I was just pointing out that statements like you made about "early" cars are a sure way to make a technician's life hell. If someone has a different idea of "early" than you do...you're potentially creating unneccessary work at a dealership level.Technicians have to work one customer concern as much as any other. Do they get paid a penny for messing with someone's car that doesn't have a problem? Not unless they've got a generous service manager.

Most technicians at the dealerships are good honest people trying to make a living (I know, I've been there). Its hard work and the pay sure isn't what it used to be. In days past, a technician made 50% of what the shop's hourly rate was. These days, they are lucky to get 20%...plus there is more training to do than in years past, more technical data to keep track of...you name it.

My intent was not to slam you, but to get people to think before they reacted to a statement that the early cars had a problem. Its like getting sick, if you wake up and say I'm not feeling good...your body may just help you out. If you walk out to your car expecting to see a paint problem...you probably will.

No ill will intended.
Gary - I apologize about my 350Z comment - you are always welcome here no matter what you drive. I just get very angry whenever people quickly conclude that the customer is wrong or that they are "conspiracy theorists" for disagreeing with whatever GM tells them. In the TSB, there is no mention about the early cars and that's unfortunate.

As proof that there are cars whos paint is off, I will be snapping a few pictures in a few weeks to prove it.

I caution anyone who wants to prove me wrong before I post.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:46 AM   #24
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All I know is that if I stand next to my door on my IOM Camaro and I look down the left side the car is one color, I look to the right the car is a different color.....I love it!!
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:58 AM   #25
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Hylton,
Not trying to prove you wrong. I have no doubt that there were paint issues-its a GM paint job...every one of them has a quirk about them. Is that saying they are bad? No...just a realization we have to have. Every manufacturer has their quirks-it seems as if GM's is paint (probably one of the largest complaints I've seen across the board-usually it is orange peel though-thanks EPA for the water-based paints--I want lead-based back!)

I can show you two spots on our '09 vette that weren't quite painted-thank goodness they are at the body line over the tag indent, so they don't show. If they had been anywhere else, I don't know what I would do. I've chosen not to repaint the rear bumper on that car as ANY paint work, even documented warranty work, might raise eyebrows on this car. I'm allowing the dealer to replace a couple of the stripes that have bubbles in them, but I just can't let them paint it. There are days I wish we owned a "normal" Corvette rather than a 1-of-10 car.

I honestly am interested in seeing what you are talking about-especially after seeing this bulletin. My guess is the cars with real issues will have no trouble getting them fixed...Let's hope GM is easy on this one! We've come a long way from those slab sided cars of days gone by...its interesting how it changes things concerning paint.

I'm a paint critic-I admit it-if there is an issue that can be fixed, then it should be fixed and fixed right. It is a little of my OCD showing I guess. The wife gets close to killing me at times...but my OCD usually pays off for her when we sell our cars!

Hylton-sorry to have started the day off like this. Hope we can move forward from here. It sounds like two people that are passionate about cars discussing from two different viewpoints...we both seem to fit that description. I'm sure we may but heads once in awhiled, but I do respect you and your opinion.

BTW...Hylton, the conspiracy theorist comment wasn't meant towards you...I've just seen one too many. As a tech I never assumed the customer was wrong or to be honest, just a plain idiot...I took each customer concern as legitimate until proven otherwise. I can't tell you how many rattles (not all, many were GM problems too) were related to a bottle of nailpolish in a glove box or someone's gun clip in the glove box...those were always the worst ones to explain!

Last edited by GaryTucker; 09-17-2009 at 12:02 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:16 PM   #26
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The bumper facias ARE what doesn't match. And they ARE different. The flake is closer to the surface. This can be caused by many things: air pressure, fluid tip, direction, static charge and the list goes on and on.
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:28 PM   #27
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now people are going to be complaining that GM didnt adjust the paint so the eye would percieve it all the same.

out of the metallic cars i have seen, i have noticed on a few, but its not bad at all. the cars look great regardless
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:34 PM   #28
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GM: I can't believe we're actually addressing this, seriously. Maybe next time we should use two slightly mismatched colors on the same car, just to trip the customer, and make this product that we've worked so hard to make quality into a silly, cheap mess of a car! I don't think anyone has done that before, might be cool! We're amateurs!
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