Cam Question

[CamaroDreams07]

Ok guys heres a question. Any of you who know me know that I am just beginning to learn the first thing about car mods, so bare with me as this question might be beyond stupid.

So I've seen a few V8 guys upgrading the cams on their cars. From what I've been able to gather on my own, cams are responsible for opening and closing the exhaust ports on the cylinders. So basically 2 questions, how does this help you, and why has nobody mentioned it for the V6. Is this something you just can't/don't do to a V6 or does it have to to with the DI on the Camaro?

[BigBOSS]

It is because an upgraded cam is a performance part. And those who buy the Camaro for the performance more than likely bought the V8. Thus, the companies making performance parts build V8 performance parts because of the bigger market.

Give it time and they will develop everything the V8 has, for the V6.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07

Ok guys heres a question. Any of you who know me know that I am just beginning to learn the first thing about car mods, so bare with me as this question might be beyond stupid.

So I've seen a few V8 guys upgrading the cams on their cars. From what I've been able to gather on my own, cams are responsible for opening and closing the exhaust ports on the cylinders. So basically 2 questions, how does this help you, and why has nobody mentioned it for the V6. Is this something you just can't/don't do to a V6 or does it have to to with the DI on the Camaro?

The reason you don't hear it about Cams on our car is due to the VVT.. Variable Valve Timing..

Here's one quick thing i found:

http://www.2carpros.com/how_does_it_work/camshaft.htm

[scrming]

Originally Posted by BigBOSS

It is because an upgraded cam is a performance part. And those who buy the Camaro for the performance more than likely bought the V8. Thus, the companies making performance parts build V8 performance parts because of the bigger market.

Give it time and they will develop everything the V8 has, for the V6.

also to kind of add on to that... a lot of times Cams on a V6 really don't see as big of a gain as you see on a V8 but yet basically cost as much to buy and install... so really the price/performance isn't there for Cams... until perhaps you go FI in which case you redo the heads and cams... woohoo!

[CamaroDreams07]

Thanks guys I appreciate the responses.

[RonC]

Originally Posted by scrming

also to kind of add on to that... a lot of times Cams on a V6 really don't see as big of a gain as you see on a V8 but yet basically cost as much to buy and install... so really the price/performance isn't there for Cams... until perhaps you go FI in which case you redo the heads and cams... woohoo!

So true and driveability might become a problem with larger cams.

Also some of you may not already know the Camaro V6 is a double overhead cam engine, so it has 2 cams per head. Replacing 4 cams becomes a very expensive HP per $ gain.

Boosting it would probably be a better option because of the big torque increase that would help move a car this size IMO. If anyone ever offers tuning capabilities for this engine it would help a lot with mods .

[HaveBlue]

And 24 valve springs too!
Cams will come. They will have to limit VVT travel like they do on the L99. The VVT moves the cams 40 degrees. With higher lift, more duration you'll end up with metal parts wanting to occupy the same space at the same time.
Up till the Camaro the 3.6 wasn't in enough performance cars to justify the R&D time and the lower volume means higher prices. Trust me, I've had 2 CTS's and begged people to make parts for it. Most of what is out there is not a good HP to Cost ratio.
Don't forget the LS motor has now been around for 10 years. Comp Cams has the technology to do Overhead cams, (they do Ford 4.6 2,3,4 valve cams and Hemi cams) It will come down to the increase vs the cost of 4 cams and the springs.
And of coarse there's that, "no tune" thing.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by scrming

The reason you don't hear it about Cams on our car is due to the VVT.. Variable Valve Timing..

Here's one quick thing i found:

http://www.2carpros.com/how_does_it_work/camshaft.htm

not necessarily. they've got VVT on the L99 and there are a good number of cams out for it. it just takes some time. no one has really pushed this motor yet. I'd like to get my hands on about 20 of them, nitrous the hell out of one, single, then twin turbo the hell out of another, and keep going till I find the limits of this thing.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

not necessarily. they've got VVT on the L99 and there are a good number of cams out for it. it just takes some time. no one has really pushed this motor yet. I'd like to get my hands on about 20 of them, nitrous the hell out of one, single, then twin turbo the hell out of another, and keep going till I find the limits of this thing.

of course I know a few guys who simply do cams in their V8s for the SOUND... LOL Not really a good reason to do it in a 6....

What kind of gains are the L99 guys seeing with Cams and the VVT? Also what kind of labor is involved with the L99 vs the LLT? just curious... but not curious enough to search! LOL

[scrming]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

not necessarily. they've got VVT on the L99 and there are a good number of cams out for it. it just takes some time. no one has really pushed this motor yet. I'd like to get my hands on about 20 of them, nitrous the hell out of one, single, then twin turbo the hell out of another, and keep going till I find the limits of this thing.

But yeah... your are correct... was tired last night... should have worded a bit differently.... more like "one of the reason you may not see cams is due to the VVT, which may mean there is not a lot to be gained by going with aftermarket cams..." Does that make more sense? (I'm more awake today!)

I would be very surprised to actually see cam come out... i think the potential market for them and the performance gain vs price (parts and install) just won't be there...

Take a look at the 2005+ V6 4.0L Mustang... Ford sold a TON of those cars and there is a HUGE performance market for them... superchargers and turbos... but you simply won't find cams... (you may find someone to do a regrind as a one off thing). The gains were ok doing port/polish on the heads and new cams but when you factored in the cost of labor (the 4.0L is a B*TCH to work on! ) it really didn't make a whole lot of sense... when you can stick some kind of FI on the car for a bit more money and make a LOT more power...

Some performance parts just don't see any where near the gains on a V6 as they do the V8... so you may never see a V6 version of them...

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by scrming

of course I know a few guys who simply do cams in their V8s for the SOUND... LOL Not really a good reason to do it in a 6....

What kind of gains are the L99 guys seeing with Cams and the VVT? Also what kind of labor is involved with the L99 vs the LLT? just curious... but not curious enough to search! LOL

I know a lot of guys who did a cam swap, gained minimal power (less than 50hp) but all they wanted was a lot of lope to "sound" mean.

for the labor for the L99, its basically like any other OHV cam swap. for the LLT, at first it would seem easy. pull the covers, swap the cams and go. however, the LLT has a fuel pump driven off one of the exhaust cams which might be a little more tricky to work out.

Originally Posted by scrming

But yeah... your are correct... was tired last night... should have worded a bit differently.... more like "one of the reason you may not see cams is due to the VVT, which may mean there is not a lot to be gained by going with aftermarket cams..." Does that make more sense? (I'm more awake today!)

I see what you were getting at. and while you cant go with extremely radical lift with a VVT/AFM cam, you can go pretty hard on the ramp up and utilize the VVT to increase duration to achieve more power over a wider powerband

I would be very surprised to actually see cam come out... i think the potential market for them and the performance gain vs price (parts and install) just won't be there...

There are a handful of cams out for the L99 that fully utilize VVT, for the v6, it might be a little while. the price is going to high compared to the v8 cams. first of all, because you have 4 cams instead of one, and you have the exhaust driven fuel pump issue to work out (which shouldnt be too hard to work with), and there is also the tuning issue of the v6.

Take a look at the 2005+ V6 4.0L Mustang... Ford sold a TON of those cars and there is a HUGE performance market for them... superchargers and turbos... but you simply won't find cams... (you may find someone to do a regrind as a one off thing). The gains were ok doing port/polish on the heads and new cams but when you factored in the cost of labor (the 4.0L is a B*TCH to work on! ) it really didn't make a whole lot of sense... when you can stick some kind of FI on the car for a bit more money and make a LOT more power...

Some performance parts just don't see any where near the gains on a V6 as they do the V8... so you may never see a V6 version of them...

the one thing with turbo/superchargers is that 9 times out of 10 they work better with the stock cam than with a high power N/A cam. there wasnt much of a need for the mustang guys to swap cams when all they had to do was swap a pulley and add more hp cheaper/easier than doing a cam swap.