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Old 09-16-2018, 09:22 PM   #15
mariojmoe
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Because the 2018 5.0 A10 outperforms the current gen 6 ss and is considerably less expensive and cheap to mod.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:03 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mariojmoe View Post
Because the 2018 5.0 A10 outperforms the current gen 6 ss and is considerably less expensive and cheap to mod.
To be honest, before buying my SS I researched the *living hell* out of both cars. Every comparison I read showed the SS outperforming the 5.0. Handling, 1/4 mile, skid pad, braking, lower curb weight, etc. Close comparison, don’t get me wrong, but SS was ahead and for less money once you put any real options on the car.

I would also question the mod price. The 5.0 has 4 cams to buy instead of one. 32 valve springs and followers instead of 16. Blowers, headers, exhaust systems are all priced similar too.

Again, hope I’m not coming across combative. It’s just that everything I read prior to my purchase (and test driving both before my purchase!) tells me differently.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:33 PM   #17
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I thought GM hit a homerun with the 6th Gen. Talk about beating the Mustang and Challenger in almost all performance categories. They put out a darn good product. The only thing the 5th Gen had on it was a better ride. The new frame is better tuned for handling. One problem I saw was no advertising (don't see many Vette commercials either.) Another is not enough body change. I suppose they thought they had a winner in the 5th Gen and were not going to mess with the body much. This seems to have backfired on them. I personally like the looks of the 6th Gen.

I really don't think GM cares if they outsell the Mustang. They could have made a cheap version of the SS but decided to make the car with a lot of features stock. I love that you don't get nickel and dimed to death just to have a car that performs as it should. But America doesn't share my opinion. Looks like it must fall through the entire line up with the Turbo 4 and V6.

I think GM makes it's real living selling trucks and SUV's of all sizes. Those they advertise like mad. I love my Silverado (glad I don't have the 8 speed auto). So really, until they change their sales tactics we will lack in sales.
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:04 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Smokin15 View Post
Seems GM just doesn't want to do the one thing that will help...…...ADVERTISE!!!!

Has anyone seen a Camaro advertisement?
You're right..... I don't think I have ever seen a Gen 6 commercial.
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:41 AM   #19
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The A10 2018 5.0 definitely is a slightly faster car bone stock vs the 6g either A8 or manual. I'm not talking a manual 5.0 or 2017 bc the ss definitely kicks it's rear end. The 18 direct injection A10 IS the better performer of the 2 (1/4 mile and roll). As for mods all you need is a tune, e85 flex fuel kit, headers, exhaust, cai, and jlt intake and you are in the neighborhood of a heads cam ss. You gain virtually nothing doing cams on a 5.0. I'm just stating facts, look at my current garage I'm not a Ford nut hugger by any means.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:37 AM   #20
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First off, let me say that I love my 2016 SS Camaro. Its an amazing performance car, and a big jump better in all things performance over the 5th gen (which I also owned). Definitely the best all around performance pony car today.

2nd, I believe Chevy would of course love to outsell Mustang, but they'd rather make profit, so they chose price them higher to make a higher profit per vehicle than Ford. This is absolutely true as data proves it. That said, at this point the sales are probably lower than where Chevrolet would like to see them.

Next, price is still a factor (you can still get yourself into a V8 Mustang cheaper than a V8 Camaro) but its less of a factor with the 2018 models. Once you throw in a few features/performance options to match the Camaro, the Mustang is just as pricey, and in some cases even more expensive than Camaro when looking at MSRP.

For me, it comes down to several things (not in any order of importance):

1) Price. Said above. MSRP is irrelevant. Its what you pay at the dealer. Nobody should ever pay close to MSRP on these cars unless you're ordering some special model, but you can certainly get a V8 Mustang cheaper. If they still had an over-abundance of Camaros and were running red tag sales like at the close of the 2016 model year, I'd argue you can get a Camaro for just as cheap, but you don't see amazing deals like that as much right now.

2) Practicality. Camaro is the worst at this. Not a surprise the best sports car is also the least practical. Mustang isn't practical either, but its just a bit better in most ways the Camaro, so there's another issue. (By the way, arguing that these types of cars need to be more "family friendly" is a silly argument if you ask me, but its a real thing, so its relevant)

3) Looks. Now, I think my 2016 Camaro is BAD ASS looking. Holy crap I love the way it looks, and it gets attention too. But it was just an evolution of the 5th gen...that combined with the next point, I think hurts sales.

4) Advertising. I'm sorry nay-sayers, but GM has completely failed in advertising this car. I've seen at least three to four different Mustang commercials in the past year or two. There is a new one out right now of a young women driving an orange version and its a good commercial. She drops her child off at school (rolling through in touring mode in the school zone). Later, she comes to a stop light with some dude showing interest in her...she puts in in Sports, the exhaust gets loud and she peels off. Camaro has gotten nothing (on tv at least). They could have easily created an exciting TV ad showing off a little bad-assery all while touting its world class handling, power, and technology. Nope.

I hope for the best in the 7th gen. I honestly feel like if they do end up adding back in more space, making the car a bit more practical, improving visibility and keeping price the same or better...will the car actually perform as well as the 6th gen? That my friends, is a HUGE task. Lets hope that the Alpha 2 platform can add a little size without sacrificing weight or handling.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Icefsh View Post
I thought GM hit a homerun with the 6th Gen. Talk about beating the Mustang and Challenger in almost all performance categories. They put out a darn good product. The only thing the 5th Gen had on it was a better ride. The new frame is better tuned for handling. One problem I saw was no advertising (don't see many Vette commercials either.) Another is not enough body change. I suppose they thought they had a winner in the 5th Gen and were not going to mess with the body much. This seems to have backfired on them. I personally like the looks of the 6th Gen.

I really don't think GM cares if they outsell the Mustang. They could have made a cheap version of the SS but decided to make the car with a lot of features stock. I love that you don't get nickel and dimed to death just to have a car that performs as it should. But America doesn't share my opinion. Looks like it must fall through the entire line up with the Turbo 4 and V6.

I think GM makes it's real living selling trucks and SUV's of all sizes. Those they advertise like mad. I love my Silverado (glad I don't have the 8 speed auto). So really, until they change their sales tactics we will lack in sales.
I think that is part of the problem. Yes we the enthusiasts love that they built the best performance car in the segment, but unfortunately that's not what sells the most cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
First off, let me say that I love my 2016 SS Camaro. Its an amazing performance car, and a big jump better in all things performance over the 5th gen (which I also owned). Definitely the best all around performance pony car today.

2nd, I believe Chevy would of course love to outsell Mustang, but they'd rather make profit, so they chose price them higher to make a higher profit per vehicle than Ford. This is absolutely true as data proves it. That said, at this point the sales are probably lower than where Chevrolet would like to see them.

Next, price is still a factor (you can still get yourself into a V8 Mustang cheaper than a V8 Camaro) but its less of a factor with the 2018 models. Once you throw in a few features/performance options to match the Camaro, the Mustang is just as pricey, and in some cases even more expensive than Camaro when looking at MSRP.

For me, it comes down to several things (not in any order of importance):

1) Price. Said above. MSRP is irrelevant. Its what you pay at the dealer. Nobody should ever pay close to MSRP on these cars unless you're ordering some special model, but you can certainly get a V8 Mustang cheaper. If they still had an over-abundance of Camaros and were running red tag sales like at the close of the 2016 model year, I'd argue you can get a Camaro for just as cheap, but you don't see amazing deals like that as much right now.

2) Practicality. Camaro is the worst at this. Not a surprise the best sports car is also the least practical. Mustang isn't practical either, but its just a bit better in most ways the Camaro, so there's another issue. (By the way, arguing that these types of cars need to be more "family friendly" is a silly argument if you ask me, but its a real thing, so its relevant)

3) Looks. Now, I think my 2016 Camaro is BAD ASS looking. Holy crap I love the way it looks, and it gets attention too. But it was just an evolution of the 5th gen...that combined with the next point, I think hurts sales.

4) Advertising. I'm sorry nay-sayers, but GM has completely failed in advertising this car. I've seen at least three to four different Mustang commercials in the past year or two. There is a new one out right now of a young women driving an orange version and its a good commercial. She drops her child off at school (rolling through in touring mode in the school zone). Later, she comes to a stop light with some dude showing interest in her...she puts in in Sports, the exhaust gets loud and she peels off. Camaro has gotten nothing (on tv at least). They could have easily created an exciting TV ad showing off a little bad-assery all while touting its world class handling, power, and technology. Nope.

I hope for the best in the 7th gen. I honestly feel like if they do end up adding back in more space, making the car a bit more practical, improving visibility and keeping price the same or better...will the car actually perform as well as the 6th gen? That my friends, is a HUGE task. Lets hope that the Alpha 2 platform can add a little size without sacrificing weight or handling.
Despite all the talk on this forum about fleet sales, ATPs, and not caring if they aren't selling as much, this article pretty much says the opposite. He basically came out and said it, that they are doing great with the high end models, but the low end models where the majority of sales are they are getting taken to school.

On to your points

1. MSRP I agree, but at the same time disagree. Sticker Shock can be a real thing.

2. Practicality. I agree. None of these cars are ideal but when you are clearly the worst at it behind your competition that can be the difference in a sale. I have said numerous times here lately. I am an active person during the summer. I do a lot things right after leaving the office. When I had my Mustang I could keep all my stuff in my trunk and still pick up friends and their stuff. Can't do that in the Camaro. And it just sucks, I would love to consider it but I cant.

3. I agree. The 6th gen is a good looking vehicle, but IMO it's look was just an evolution of the 5th Gen which that styling has been slammed into our faces since 2006.

4. I agree, it could help. I don't think it needs a full campaign for itself, but at least feature it in some ads.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:04 AM   #22
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Newsflash:

the mustang outsold the Camaro in the 80s and 90s too, even though it was not as good a performer;

and no one in their right mind would say those mustangs were better looking than the Camaro.
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:24 AM   #23
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Newsflash:

the mustang outsold the Camaro in the 80s and 90s too, even though it was not as good a performer;

and no one in their right mind would say those mustangs were better looking than the Camaro.
I think you would find plenty of people that would say the 87-93 Mustang's were better looking.
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:00 PM   #24
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"We do a phenomenal job with our loaded SSs, and it's great business for us,
That's an important takeaway. It's not all doom and gloom. For the low end, they can try lowering the price, and it may very well help, but to get Challenger type sales, they'll need something more family oriented as well.
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:58 PM   #25
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That's an important takeaway. It's not all doom and gloom. For the low end, they can try lowering the price, and it may very well help, but to get Challenger type sales, they'll need something more family oriented as well.
It is a very important takeaway. IMO that shows they may have put to much focus on the high performance models, when the life line of the car is actually the low end models.

Perhaps the 7th gen can strike a better balance.
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:16 PM   #26
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I think you would find plenty of people that would say the 87-93 Mustang's were better looking.
that's why i said no one in their right mind.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:04 PM   #27
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Let's breakdown the numbers and look at ownership sales vs rental/fleet - here are the stats another member posted on a thread already dedicated to this dicsussion (credit - hotlap):

Retail ATP's 2018 Q1-Q2 (JDPin)
Camaro: $40,814
Challenger: $38,241 (-$2,573)
Mustang: $34,798 (-$6,016)

Retail Sales 2018 Q1-Q2
Mustang: 29,548
Challenger: 25,783 (-3,765)
Camaro: 24,809 (4,739)

Total Sales 2018 Q1-Q2
Mustang 42,428
Challenger 37,367 (-5,061)
Camaro 25,380 (-17,048)

Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2018 Q1-Q2
Camaro 2.2%
Mustang 30.4% (+28.1%)
Challenger 31% (+28.8%)
Compared to 2107 totals
Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498 (-$4,016)
Mustang: $33,792 (-$5,722)

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581 (-4641)
Challenger: 45,821 (-19,401)

Total Sales 2017
Mustang 81,866
Camaro 67,940 (-13,926)
Challenger 64,537 (-17,329)

Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2017
Camaro 4%
Mustang 26% (+22%)
Challenger 29% (+25%)

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498 (-$4,016)
Mustang: $33,792 (-$5,722)

Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2017
Camaro 4%
Mustang 26% (+22%)
Challenger 29% (+25%)

With a little math, remove the rental sales from the Q1-Q2 sales figures:

Mustang (-30.4%) = 29, 529
Camaro (-2.2%) = 24, 821
Challenger (-31%) = 25, 783


So yes, the Camaro is behind in sales for Q1-Q2 in 2018...but Al O's words are misleading, if GM wants to compete in sales volumes, they need to start with offering attractive rental and fleet packages as that is where the majority of the difference lies.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:28 PM   #28
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So yes, the Camaro is behind in sales for Q1-Q2 in 2018...but Al O's words are misleading, if GM wants to compete in sales volumes, they need to start with offering attractive rental and fleet packages as that is where the majority of the difference lies.
That is what makes this confusing to me. GM seems to be pretty happy to always point out there low fleet high retail sales. Why in a discussion about sales, did they not mention this at all? The fact he said they want to go after the lower end models makes me think one of the following:

1. the numbers posted above are inaccurate, which I have no proof, I just find it odd that it was not mentioned anywhere in this article, in an article about sales and the head man himself said they want to go after lower trims and win.

2. GM is not happy with the volume despite the higher ATP. All that tells me is they sell more high trims than low trims, but the low trims are the lifeblood of the car.

3. Everything is just taken out of context in this article lol
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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