THIS REALLY SUCKS!!!!

[Fandango]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

?????????????

It IS Good news?

First - if GM (and Ford and Chrysler) go bankrupt, YOU, the taxpayer will be taking over the existing pension plans -- brace yourselves...........

You DO realize, don't you, that you're not only talking about the condition of General Motors -- but the survival of the tens of thousands of suppliers and vendors to each company - and their employees and families - and then there are the 7,000 GM dealers out there and THEIR families and suppliers...........


This is NOT good news -- sorry!

Sorry for that comment. I just feel that the government and the folks on Wall Street fail to see that out great American companies, Ford and Chrysler included would be the one they bail out. Not the ones living beyond their means such as the sub-primers and the people bailing on the GM and Ford stock because of Energy. I didn't mean to say it was good news. I'm sorry. I am an avid Chevy Fan and I would never like to see the demise of such a brand. That's why I try and rally as many as I can find to buy into the ailing auto markets. GM, Ford, and Chrysler need the American's support. I just feel it is out patriaotic duty to do what we can. Honestly, I'd rather my tax dollars go to GM then to the bailout.

Again. From the bottom of my heart, I retract that comment. I am Sorry.

I want to buy a new Camaro. I want it it be there.

[flaguy]

Originally Posted by Fandango

Sorry for that comment. I just feel that the government and the folks on Wall Street fail to see that out great American companies, Ford and Chrysler included would be the one they bail out. Not the ones living beyond their means such as the sub-primers and the people bailing on the GM and Ford stock because of Energy. I didn't mean to say it was good news. I'm sorry. I am an avid Chevy Fan and I would never like to see the demise of such a brand. That's why I try and rally as many as I can find to buy into the ailing auto markets. GM, Ford, and Chrysler need the American's support. I just feel it is out patriaotic duty to do what we can. Honestly, I'd rather my tax dollars go to GM then to the bailout.

Again. From the bottom of my heart, I retract that comment. I am Sorry.

I want to buy a new Camaro. I want it it be there.

I whole heartedly disagree with you. Why would you be ok with bailing out GM and Ford but not ok with bailing out banks? Banks were irresponsible by giving out loans to people who couldn't afford them, GM and Ford have been irresponsible by assuming there would always be a market for SUV's and trucks...much the same as banks assumed housing values would always basically go up.

A bailout is a bailout. It's exactly that, bailing something/someone out of a huge mistake or lack of judgement.

I'm not saying I support either, but supporting bailing out one and not the other is hypocritical.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

?????????????

It IS Good news?

First - if GM (and Ford and Chrysler) go bankrupt, YOU, the taxpayer will be taking over the existing pension plans -- brace yourselves...........

You DO realize, don't you, that you're not only talking about the condition of General Motors -- but the survival of the tens of thousands of suppliers and vendors to each company - and their employees and families - and then there are the 7,000 GM dealers out there and THEIR families and suppliers...........


This is NOT good news -- sorry!

As fbodfather has pointed out, we live in an interdependent market. When the government bails out, offers reduced rate loans, or otherwise helps an industry, it might benefit some fat cats at the top. If the company fails, they'll still have enough in the bank for at least 2 generations of luxury. If banks and big companies fail, then all the poor guys at the bottom just trying to feed their families won't have jobs. Let's not forget about all the companies that go under because they supply parts almost exclusively to certain companies.

GM in this position, while great for buying lots of cheap stocks, is terrible for the security of one of the world's most established companies. I would rather have GM in a safe place.

[FenwickHockey65]

Everyone needs to calm down. Yes, GM's stock went down. But so did toyota's, so did Ford's, so did nissan's, so did honda's. Hell, toyota's stock has dropped to where it was in 2003. This is a market-wide crisis. GM is in trouble, but I wouldn't say they're on a "death watch." The entire market's down, the DJIA's below 10,000 points.

We have so many great products on the way. I'm quite confident that GM will be able to pull through these hard times and emerge better than ever. For all the people reconsidering their next GM purchase, don't. You've all been waiting for the Camaro for years. If you truly want one, buy one. It'll help GM improve sales and hopefully become profitable after 2010.

As Scott always says: "Keep the faith."

[fad1]

It's a major bump, but I'm pretty sure they'll pull through. You know There are a lot of things I dont agree with the way GM is working, but hopefully after this crisis is over, i hope they get there affaires in order and they make drastic changes that will make them superior in the world market.

[quanine10]

Will this possibly affect us 5th gen camaro lovers in a good way by forcing gms hand of pushing production up in order to gain a bigger presence in the market and selling more units?

[pruettfan]

I think we will see a different GM in the future, heck they are already making a ton of changes. GM will survive because they have a strong business in Asia. I suspect that there will be less models and less brands in the GM portfolio but I suspect that the new products will survive because they have some excitement behind them. Look at the new Malibu, it is one of GMs most succesful and profitable models. If GM can come up with 4-5 more models like Malibu they will be fine. Camaro will be successful but one car cannot save a huge company. I would not want to be a member of UAW right now because their world is going to change tremendously.

[swazworth]

Originally Posted by headpunter

ok slow down here. They will be fine. They have been around for 100 years, they have seen worse and will pull through. dont get excited.

cough*lehman brothers*cough not the same i know but still they had been around for over 100 years also.

look here is my prediction......

gm is to big to fail (didn't the US automakers just $25 billion) they are not going to go anywhere. the date to look forward to is 2010, that is when they feel everything should settle down a little. so i think in the next couple of days gm will come out with another plan to cut cost, or saying they are renegotiating contracts with uaw..... the stock will go up a little and then probably drop back off. it will take awhile for the stock to rebound from these lows, but in the end it will be ok.

Originally Posted by flaguy

GM and Ford have been irresponsible by assuming there would always be a market for SUV's and trucks

that is why the free market is the greatest market in the world. were they "irresponsible"? who knows, ford was living on the explorer for years. what would make them think "hey, maybe we should build a hybrid?"...... nothing.
i'm not disagreeing with you i think maybe they should have thought a little more outside the box. but the fact is nobody (car companies) really were. ok maybe the prius but does that really count? i think it was more of a car to make the "tree huggers" happy... i think it just happened to come out at a good time. all i'm trying to say is that this is how things work. company A sells one thing for years, then something happens and the item they were selling doesn't sell anymore. they try to figure out how to get this item to sell again, the inventory rises and the stock drops. then (hopefully) they figure it out and bring out the product that people want and will buy. then inventories go down and the stock goes up. everybody is happy and forgets what is was like a year ago or so. yes it is very over simplified.....

[fad1]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I think we will see a different GM in the future, heck they are already making a ton of changes. GM will survive because they have a strong business in Asia. I suspect that there will be less models and less brands in the GM portfolio but I suspect that the new products will survive because they have some excitement behind them. Look at the new Malibu, it is one of GMs most succesful and profitable models. If GM can come up with 4-5 more models like Malibu they will be fine. Camaro will be successful but one car cannot save a huge company. I would not want to be a member of UAW right now because their world is going to change tremendously.

I agree, but what scares me is that GM was "hyping up" the Chevy Volt. When it was revealed, the general public didnt recieve it too well. I'm just saying, GM has to get its act together and really start changing the game. One that that really irritates me about GM is their "badge swapping" engineering. They have to start making cars for the individual brands. Forget about large profits, get the market share back in the U.S and then focus on profits. My $.02

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

?????????????

It IS Good news?

First - if GM (and Ford and Chrysler) go bankrupt, YOU, the taxpayer will be taking over the existing pension plans -- brace yourselves...........

You DO realize, don't you, that you're not only talking about the condition of General Motors -- but the survival of the tens of thousands of suppliers and vendors to each company - and their employees and families - and then there are the 7,000 GM dealers out there and THEIR families and suppliers...........


This is NOT good news -- sorry!

honestly, I'd be more ok with giving $100,000,000,000 to Ford, GM and Chrysler than giving $750,000,000,000 to ANY banks in the US... you see, if we were to give GM, Ford and Chrysler $100billion with the understanding that they were to use that money to expedite into production cars like the Volt, Cruze and fuel cell vehicles, then set aside $50billion more for tax incentives to buy these American made cars, it would do alot more for the economy than giving $750billion to banks in an attempt to jump start credit... and we can ALL see how piss poorly that's working, since the DJIA is falling like a rock right now.

when we loan this money to banks, we will NEVER SEE THAT MONEY AGAIN... at least if we lend this money to American car companies, we might get it back after a decade... look at Chrysler... the government bailed them out back in the day and they paid them back like 15years later... might have been as little as 10 years... but the bottom line is that they paid it back... GM and Ford would do the same... but these banks, they're going to take our money to the Bahamas with their CEOs and VPs... and STILL not lend you enough money to buy a 5th gen Camaro if you put no money or little money down.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle

honestly, I'd be more ok with giving $100,000,000,000 to Ford, GM and Chrysler than giving $750,000,000,000 to ANY banks in the US... you see, if we were to give GM, Ford and Chrysler $100billion with the understanding that they were to use that money to expedite into production cars like the Volt, Cruze and fuel cell vehicles, then set aside $50billion more for tax incentives to buy these American made cars, it would do alot more for the economy than giving $750billion to banks in an attempt to jump start credit... and we can ALL see how piss poorly that's working, since the DJIA is falling like a rock right now.

when we loan this money to banks, we will NEVER SEE THAT MONEY AGAIN... at least if we lend this money to American car companies, we might get it back after a decade... look at Chrysler... the government bailed them out back in the day and they paid them back like 15years later... might have been as little as 10 years... but the bottom line is that they paid it back... GM and Ford would do the same... but these banks, they're going to take our money to the Bahamas with their CEOs and VPs... and STILL not lend you enough money to buy a 5th gen Camaro if you put no money or little money down.

and repeal cafe at the same time...

[Nickdago]

The problem is more about the markets in general and not just about GM. This is a worldwide issue effecting numerous companies in all countries. If this is not handled and handled quickly we will have much more to worry about than whether we can buy the Camaro or not.

Sad thing is I really believe GM is poised for a comeback in the next few years, however they may not get the chance if things continue to get worse. And what hope do we have that things will turn around, Obama, also known as Barry, or John McCain. Anybody here really believe either one of these guys actually have a clue?

If what they are saying about the automotive industry in general for 2009 is true there is no way any of them will pull through without being damaged either beyond repair or severly changed for decades to come.

What would it do to our national security to lose an industry that would build the equipment we might need in a war. Without the industrial base in World War II we would have surely lost that war along with our allies.

It would sure be nice if we could have a little faith in someone either in goverment or in the private sector to step up and take control of the finiancial situation we find ourselves in.

[65bus]

Originally Posted by Evotion

Since the beginning of Sept. I have lost more than what 2 new Camaros are worth. Depressing? Very. But the stock market is not a get rich quick scheme... it will take time, it will come around. What worries me the most is that I am waiting for the convertible, now I have to play the waiting (and worrying) game.

On the positive side... there are now 2 stations by my house selling gas for $2.99 a gallon.

$2.99 a gallon???? Im still paying $3.79 a gallon here in NC, which really sucks and missunderstood why NC is the highest in the nation when most of the plants in NC moved over seas and unemployment/foreclosers are going on left and right. Lucky my work is still doing decent all things considering.

I also think GM/Ford/ect. ect.. will be fine. Its the American people im worried about. People are lined up for help today over 250 people were at a near by place begging for help at a community reach program and they expect it to get worse. Why and I mean WHY are people allways paniking. Its just like everytime we get snow around here people go crazy running to the store to buy bread/milk and whatever else they can get there hands on just to find out the next day no SNOW!!!!! I had to wait and wait just to buy gas a couple weeks ago about to run out of gas sitting there while people were waiting to just top off there tanks with 2-3 gallons. If people would just go on living there life from day to day without stresssing life would straighten itself out. And if you have to be worried about something help your neighbor out down the road who cant afford to buy his kid some lunch cause his job decided moving to Ch*na would make them more money and cared less about the people who actually made them there money.

If the Country wants to fix the USA problems first thing would be a 200% tax on imports and any company that decides to move to another country to save a dollar will no longer be allowed to offer/sale there products in the USA again. Also all the companies that are currently located in the USA that has all the profits going back to their country has to pay a higher tax also for a non American profit company!!!!

Sorry if it seems harsh but this stupid foriegn exchange is what got us into a slump atleast were i live its what took 90% of the jobs, We need a president that is full of GOD and believes in the American people not his bank account, that is what made this country so strong in the past and will bring us out in the future, Thanks for listening to my oppinion:flag1:

[stovt001]

One thing to keep in mind is that with the market the way it is and all the fear going around, I do not feel that stock prices accurately predict future earnings like they should.

That said, I do consider it a very real possibility that GM could go under. As they say, it is the perfect storm. Really, external factors couldn't have gone worse unless buying cars were outlawed or something similar. In fact, I give everyone at GM and Ford, top to bottom, a lot of credit for remaining alive this long. I mean the turnaround plans were good ideas but very tough even when times were good a few years ago.

As others have said, with all the direct employees, dealers, and suppliers that depend on GM and Ford, they really are too big to go under without dragging America with them. Now if only some politicians will realize that.