What a crappy day

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Dude if you want a nimble sports car to drive the mountains with whilst wearing your driving gloves, GUCCI sunglasses and scarf fluttering in the wind, a Euro roadster, Miata, or 370Z is waiting for you at dealerships right now. xD I'm just kidding around, man. But seriously... at almost 4,000 lbs curb weight, we should all be pretty damn appreciative of how much handling they have managed to wring out of the Camaro as it is.

[JMAN311]

Do you only go to the theaters to watch movies that the critics like too? Or do you just go see something that interests YOU?

I agree with all the people telling you to wait and experience the car for yourself before you write it off, and if you don't wanna wait to drive it for yourself then go get yourself a 2-seater, but please don't get a Miata ()

[garagelogic]

Y'know, the double-standard never ceases to amaze me when it comes to buying a car. I am by no means directing my post at eddiehaskell,but since he took the time to post this, I will use his qoute:

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

One "review" made a comment about the steering wheel and you've chosen to run with as if it's a fact.

Oh, I see, so when a reviewer (and I don't even recall which one it was) makes a comment like this about the Mustang, it's not okay to run with it as fact?

The parking brake handle on the Mustang will gouge your leg.

I say this because there have been repeated instances on this board alone where that has been given as a fact despite the fact that I, as a 6'2", 220lb driver and many other Mustang owners, have repeated over and over that this has not been a problem at all for us.

That's just the way it works. Suck it up and try to enjoy your car without putting to much stock in what someone else has to say about it, positive or negative.

[SQUALO]

Reviews are nothing more than ONE person's opinion, and god for bid that person has a personal issue with the manufacturer (regardless of product) they will give a bad review EVERYTIME.

Try comparing the reviews and see how many more positive ones there are out there. Do you really think, the General would re-incarnate a HISTORIC nameplate, and use YUGO type technology (I hope no one out there own a YUGO as a beater car ).

[cam2fst4u]

I would have to say that some of the reviews disappointed me too at first. I was hoping that they would come out and say "this car is so awesome in every aspect we didn't have the time to write the article because we couldn't pull ourselves out of the car" but then I remembered that there are people that like the mustangs and challengers and whatever the import dujour may be. If everyone liked the same thing we would all be driving the same car,wearing the same clothes, listening to the same music so if they didn't like the interior fine, if it didn't suck the skin off their faces because they didn't know how to launch it fine who cares.... like I have said before i dont care if it has milk crates for seats I still love this car and will have one as soon as I am able.

[UCF w00t]

Some more bits about ride/handling...
left lane news...

The engineers traveled to Germany’s famed Nurburgring race track to dial-in the suspension and, in our brief drives as part of the media launch, we’d say they outdid themselves by managing to keep the ride from beating up passengers on Michigan’s pockmarked back country roads, yet giving the Camaro formidable moves in the twisties. Though we experienced plenty of ka-chung, ka-chung from repaired highway expansion joints, the jarring never reached the cabin. A particularly rough winter wreaked havoc on Michigan’s rough roads, so we’ll wait to fully evaluate the ride-and-handling when we get more opportunity to sample the new Camaro on decent pavement.
...
Leftlane’s bottom line:
General Motors, while in the news lately for a lot of the wrong reasons, has truly shown they can still build a car that the American public wants – high-mpg Malibus and Cobalts notwithstanding (sure, that’s what you really want. Right.). The new halo car will undoubtedly succeed at bringing shoppers into Chevrolet dealerships and, GM hopes, it’ll sell more than just Camaros.

It’s a lofty ambition, to be certain, but whether you choose the six or the eight-cylinder Camaro, you will wind up with a neo-retro sports car that rewards your senses on almost every level.

the car connection.com

The above should not lead you to believe that the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS has been neutered. Powering through corners, the suspension responds immediately with little roll; there is none of the waiting-for-things-to-happen (like springs and dampers compressing) before the car responds. It's instant. Steering is communicative and responsive, plus cornering attitude can be modulated with the throttle. In nearly all circumstances, we'd describe the Camaro's handling attitude as completely neutral, a characteristic that gives the car an exceptionally agile feel.

And since the 370z keeps getting brought up, here's an interesting comparison between the Z and mustang gt. I think if this is 370z vs Camaro they come up even in the end (vs the Z being the 'clear winner').

[CoolestCamaro873]

The truth is we've seen one magazine review that cornering in the SS is .89g all the way to another at .94g, there will be mixed reviews. But, notice the common theme in all of the reviews: GM has buitl a winner that is superior to its competition. The Camaro will win a pissing contest in every performance and comfort aspect against the other competitors of the Big 3! The truth is conering isn't the only thing that is important when driving, the ride of the car will determine the comfort level of the driver and enable him to feel confidant in handling his car or not. And, another common theme is that the Camaro rides well and handles all obstacles you throw at it. When I had a 350Z and Vette, both were very nice cars, but even though the Vette had better cornering grip .98g versus .92g (350Z) the Z had a more comfortable ride and I felt alot more confident in the Z at higher speeds versus the Vette! Sometimes you give up to gain in areas. And, lets face it the majority of owners won't be on the track with their Camaro, so GM did the smart thing and made sure that the ride of the Camaro couldn't be matched by it's competitors and also according to one review still had the best grip .93g /.94g !

So relax and enjoy the car for what it is, a muscle car that is finally back to take it's crown against the Big 3 in a pissing contest!

[Douge]

Originally Posted by Icewinds

Nimble sports car? Why on earth are you considering a Camaro then? Its not nimble, its a MUSCLE car. Its big and heavy. Get a 370Z if you want nimble.

I agree and I would further recommend a Honda S2000. Your expectations seem to be pretty unrealistic for the Camaro and you would be better served looking at another car. I read a couple of the reviews and you are focusing solely on the negatives. If I did that I would be bummed too.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I have been looking forward to this day for a long time- The first real, full tests of the V6 and SS Camaros. I sat at my computer at 2:59, refreshing web pages until the Camaro reviews were finally posted. And for my efforts I was rewarded by having my dreams of a high-quality, nimble, sporty car to take up Glendora Mountain Road crushed. It seems unanimous: awful views out, unable to see apexes to hit them right, claustrophobic feeling, bad steering wheel, awful interior materials, wide, un-supportive seats, feelings of bulkiness and heaviness. I keep saying I'll reserve final judgment until I can see for myself, but when all the reviews are saying the exact same thing, it just doesn't give me much hope. I absolutely love the looks of this car. I love the engines. I love the heritage. But it just doesn't work for me.

I totally agree with everything I've quoted from you here, stovt (except for the part about sitting at my PC at 2:59 refreshing the pages ). I have had 3 Camaros in the past and loved all of them, but I was reserving judgement on the 5th Gen until I could actually see one and read the reviews. I have to agree that the reviews are generally less than I had hoped.

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

5. How can a steering wheel be bad?

isn't for you...move on. There is no need to pollute every thread with negativity because the car doesn't meet your needs.

So eddiehaskell, we're not allowed to post negative threads in this forum? I must have missed that rule.

As far as the steering wheel, the complaint is that it's too big. I think the same thing about the wheel in my Mustang -- too big. I drove a friend's BMW M S54 roadster, and now I know what a proper sports car steering wheel should be like. It may seem like a minor nitpick unless you've experienced a good one, but OTOH, what part of the car are you more in contact with every time you drive it?

Originally Posted by Number 3

If you expect a panoramic view and hop in a Camaro you will feel like the visibility is porr when you get in. The cowl and belt line are high, the windshield slopes back. But none of these reviews were written by guys who have lived with the car more than the few hours GM let them drive them.

Sit in the car. Drive one. Make your own decision. My fist sit in the Camaro I would have agreed with the reviews. Now, the only thing I can really agree with them on is the the C-pillar is thick so you use your mirrors.

Your take is sort of contradictory, because you seem to be blaming the reviewers for giving their initial reactions after a few hours with the car, but you say that your initial reactions were the same -- and yet you're advising us to sit in the car, drive one, and then make a decision... as if we'd come to a different conclusion. Remember that most of us are going to get a 10 to 20 minute test drive at most, and we have to base a $35K decision on that. So, at least in my case, that's why the reviews are very important.

I do appreciate your long-term reviews of the car. They are very useful, and I think honest, although I suspect you might have some bias toward the car.

I'll just say that the 2010 Camaro SS has been dominating my thoughts for the past several months, and I am really, really anticipating seeing one and driving one. I was fairly certain that I was going to say goodbye to the Mustang and get a new Camaro. It was like a 90% chance. Now, the reviews have really dimmed my enthusiasm. Here's why:

For me, just like my Mustang and every other car I've owned, the car will be first and foremost a daily driver. Therefore it must be reliable, fun to drive, easy to drive, and easy to live with on a daily basis. If the visibility is poor, that's going to make it harder to drive. If, as one reviewer commented, the grip is great but the handling is non-communicative, that's going to take some of the fun away. If the trunk opening is ridiculously small, that might mean it's going to be a hassle getting two sets of golf clubs and carts in there. It's a given that I want a car with tremendous performance. I take the Mustang to HPDE road course events each year, and I'm power-sliding out of each turn, knocking chunks out of the tires, and generally running the car at its limits on a closed race track. So the car has to perform here too, and I have no doubts that the Camaro would whip my Mustang in lap times. But the other 99% of the year is back to the mundane commute to work, where I am not anywhere near the limits of the car...

I don't know, I'm just a bit disappointed and feel like this is a setback. Maybe when I see the car and drive it, I will love it. But back in the mid '90s, I test drove a 6-speed Formula Firebird at a dealership and I did not like the feeling of the high cowl and limited visibility, despite the exhilarating acceleration, and I ended up getting a '95 Mustang GT instead because I thought it had superior everyday ergonomics. Bummed... :(

[PoleCat2SSRS2010]

I can't believe how people allow themselves to be influence over outside information that is purely at most only subjective. I pretty much intend on ignoring all of those opinions and well let myself be the judge.
If people are so easily influenced then they must be tools!

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by PoleCat2SSRS2010

I can't believe how people allow themselves to be influence over outside information that is purely at most only subjective. I pretty much intend on ignoring all of those opinions and well let myself be the judge.
If people are so easily influenced then they must be tools!

PoleCat, can you tell me why you read and post to these forums, if not for the opinions of others?

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I have been looking forward to this day for a long time- The first real, full tests of the V6 and SS Camaros. I sat at my computer at 2:59, refreshing web pages until the Camaro reviews were finally posted. And for my efforts I was rewarded by having my dreams of a high-quality, nimble, sporty car to take up Glendora Mountain Road crushed. It seems unanimous: awful views out, unable to see apexes to hit them right, claustrophobic feeling, bad steering wheel, awful interior materials, wide, un-supportive seats, feelings of bulkiness and heaviness. I keep saying I'll reserve final judgment until I can see for myself, but when all the reviews are saying the exact same thing, it just doesn't give me much hope. I absolutely love the looks of this car. I love the engines. I love the heritage. But it just doesn't work for me. My fun drives are entirely on twisty, narrow, two lane mountain roads where any lack of visibility could kill you. I need something that is not only small and nimble, but feels that way too. And my wife will not go for something that feels claustrophobic. She NEEDS that feeling of openness. Honestly, my budget for my next car should be the low-$20K, but I was willing to really stretch that to $30K for what I thought was my dream car, but I just can't justify that now, especially if my wife is gonna hate it. Man I'm pissed.

I think you're overreacting

[Mr Twisty]

Opinions are like....Nevermind.

[PoleCat2SSRS2010]

Originally Posted by wjones14

PoleCat, can you tell me why you read and post to these forums, if not for the opinions of others?

I am just saying that I don't allow my self to be that easily influenced. If there are actual fact based data then that can't be disputed. Just like in the hospital everyone has a different level of how they rate pain. Pain is subjectively rated but is treated as real.
People shouldn't let themselves be that easily manipulated. They should only consider the facts and make their own decisions.
How do you know that all of the reviewers are unbiased? There is no 100% proof that they go in being absolutely objective.
I personally love the design of the 2010 Camaro. I might a make a few mods but that is my perspective and my choice not the public or someone else's.