What a crappy day

[DDustiNN]

Also, I think it's necessary to point out that the "view" is to be expected. As much as everyone loved the concept car, if they were to alter it in any way then people would have a fit and start "GM SUX" riots. Hell, it was pretty damn close when they made such minor adjustments like the mirrors, gas cap, etc. And now you want them to change the windows?

They took what everyone wanted - the concept car - and did the best job they could possibly do to make that into a practical car to drive.

They could've stayed with the original design, and left you with some teeny tiny mirrors, but they made them bigger so you could see more. If they had ultimately changed the appearance of the car, the sh!t would've definitely hit the fan...

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Please go back and read my posts in this thread. You obviously haven't. Because if you had, you would've seen that this statement you've made is 100% false.

I posted this in the jalopnik thread but apparently you missed that so I'll add it here...

and


It's becoming apparent to me that you've convinced yourself that the Camaro sucks at handling. You had mentioned your worries of this in the past.

I'll urge you to clear your head and read the reviews again. This time don't start with Jalopnik.

These reviews are far from unanimous. And your comments about the handling... the conclusion I came to is that the car handles great but it takes some getting used to and that because of the visibility it feels a bit bigger than it is since you cant see where the body panels stop. That is 100% caused by the styling of the car.

I think a misunderstanding here is what we're referring to by "handling". When I talk about handling, I'm talking skidpad, slalom, lap-times, and other measured tests, even talk of the steering effort, quickness, feel, and feedback. On the other hand, the feeling of nimbleness is the feeling that the car shrinks in the turns, that it feels good taking it around turns, that it is easy to hit an apex, etc.

I love what I'm reading about the handling. Along with braking, its better than I expected. Unfortunately, it is the feeling of nimbleness that seems to be the problem. Some cars handle well but don't feel nimble. Some cars feel nimble but still don't put out good numbers. Some cars do both. It simply sounds like the Camaro is in the first category. You hit the nail on the head when you said it feels bigger than it is because you can't see where the body panels stop. When you're on a tight twisty road with sport bikers coming at you from around a blind corner practically laying down into your lane, you start appreciating knowing where the body panels stop.

Also, to be honest, I didn't read all of your posts. The other users kinda ruined that for you. I can only take so many posts of being called some variation of a homosexual Euro-loving prissy Miata driver before I get a little annoyed and feel the need to respond.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by DDustiNN

Did you fail to notice that, beside these small things, most of the reviewers loved the car and thought it was a great for the money? Or do you just focus on negativity? No car is going to be perfect for everyone, but I read every single review and came away feeling that the car is well worth the money they're asking, and that the majority of them loved the time they had with it.

The impression I got was that the Camaro was indeed great at burnouts, looked great, good value, good in a straight line, and had good numbers to talk about, and that the downside was it wasn't quite suited for driving hard on mountain roads. Unfortunately, that was the one area that was most important to me. Not that I don't love a good burnout, and not that I wouldn't drag race my Camaro (legally!) every so often, but I'd be spending the most time on the mountain roads I live right off of, so that's kinda important.

Originally Posted by DDustiNN

Also, I think it's necessary to point out that the "view" is to be expected. As much as everyone loved the concept car, if they were to alter it in any way then people would have a fit and start "GM SUX" riots. Hell, it was pretty damn close when they made such minor adjustments like the mirrors, gas cap, etc. And now you want them to change the windows?

They took what everyone wanted - the concept car - and did the best job they could possibly do to make that into a practical car to drive.

They could've stayed with the original design, and left you with some teeny tiny mirrors, but they made them bigger so you could see more. If they had ultimately changed the appearance of the car, the sh!t would've definitely hit the fan...

I definitely see what you're saying, and I agree to a large extent. As you pointed out with the example of the mirrors, GM made a number of tweaks from concept to production, such as raising the roof line, that improved the practicalities and visibility of the car. Unfortunately, it seems that these tweaks didn't improve it quite far enough for most reviewers tastes. If it was my call, I think the beltline could have been lowered a touch. That would improve visibility further and I think still look good, but that wasn't the call they made, for better or for worse.

[UCF w00t]

That's all going to be perception. Which will vary from person to person. And once you get used to the car, the issues of knowing how big your car is will go away and the car will certainly feel smaller than that first time behind the wheel. These reviewers only had a few hours with the cars. I doubt any of them really got used to the car. They had to focus on lots of things besides just driving as well. If you care about a car for the twisties, it's obvious there's better choices. But keep in mind they have tradeoffs. Supposedly the 370z sucks for long hauls as the ride isn't very smooth.

[Icewinds]

Summary: Oh noes, a 4K pound car is not nimble.

Ok. Go buy something else.

[65535]

No one ever said this is a sports car. It's a pony car. RWD, V8 power, with a nice independent rear for a good price. It handles well. .88 skidpad is a great result overall for this price point.

What cars do you have experience? Like I said, my charger got complaints for visibility. in practice, it's a non-issue. Instead of being all broken up about this, how about you just reserve your judgment until you drive the frickin thing.



most people here don't give a shit about the interior. Most people don't care if it won't outcorner a zr-1.

People want a stylish coupe, with RWD and v8 power. If it handles well, so much the better.

Camaro delivers.

[stovt001]

Which is why the Camaro at first seemed like it might be a good compromise. Even the penalty bench in back could be useful at some point. Unfortunately, the impression I'm getting is that it doesn't hit the middle ground on the compromise quite enough, falling to far on the side of boulevard cruiser.

I know what you mean about getting used to the size. Most people I drive in my Cutlass think it must be a pain to drive, but I did get used to it after a while. But once I got my Cobalt, I became intoxicated with the point-and-shoot nimbleness of small cars, being able to zip through gaps in traffic left by dullards lost in their cell-phone conversation bubbles, and the general ease of going around tight, narrow turns. Obviously I knew I'd lose much of that with the Camaro, but I didn't think it would be quite this much. I am thinking something 3-series sized with real windows and where design was balanced against other things might be a better choice.

[Camarino]

Originally Posted by wjones14

If the trunk opening is ridiculously small, that might mean it's going to be a hassle getting two sets of golf clubs and carts in there..... :(

i believe Number3 mentioned somewhere that he fit 2 sets of clubs and his and his wife's luggage in the trunk on a road trip.....if i'm not mistaken ?
Care to confirm Number3?

[Matrix]

None of the reviews that I have read have surprised me expect for the performace #s.

The physical dimensions and weights are clearly stated, The engine block and the CC are stated. The interior has been hashed out on the forums like no other. Where is the surprise for you or even the dissappointment. Every review has to be taken responsibly but not to heart.

What DID surprise me is that they were able to get the QUOTED 0-60 figures. I think this is the first car that I have seen thats been able to hit the quoted specs, usually its hyped by the manufacturers.

What floored me more is that they got 4.6s (0-60) for the AUTO BUT stated that if they didnt lose traction cos of cold hard tires it will shave 0.1s MORE off that time. Thats just crazy. That would putting it in the same league as a Lambo Diabolo in accelleration at 1/10th of the cost!! BEAT THAT!!!!

Dont focus of petty perceptions and feelings of the reviewer (thats personal) go on hard facts.

As for the trunk being too small, wtf do you think this car is your minivan. Then you will bitch that the 0-60 isnt fast enough OMG!!! Trunk too small... I kept my Magnum for haulage. This isnt a haulage car.

Finally.... trunk too small...cant get your clubs in there???...GIVE UP GOLF!!!! LOL! BORING SPORT if you ask me. IMHO!!

[Icewinds]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Which is why the Camaro at first seemed like it might be a good compromise. Even the penalty bench in back could be useful at some point. Unfortunately, the impression I'm getting is that it doesn't hit the middle ground on the compromise quite enough, falling to far on the side of boulevard cruiser.

I know what you mean about getting used to the size. Most people I drive in my Cutlass think it must be a pain to drive, but I did get used to it after a while. But once I got my Cobalt, I became intoxicated with the point-and-shoot nimbleness of small cars, being able to zip through gaps in traffic left by dullards lost in their cell-phone conversation bubbles, and the general ease of going around tight, narrow turns. Obviously I knew I'd lose much of that with the Camaro, but I didn't think it would be quite this much. I am thinking something 3-series sized with real windows and where design was balanced against other things might be a better choice.

So you wanted a small car all along. Camaro is NOT a small car. Why are you whining again?

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by 65535

No one ever said this is a sports car.

OK, I guess all the GM execs who talked about this car being a "21st century sports car" are nobodies then.

most people here don't give a shit about the interior.

Yes I realize that now. But I do, and so do most consumers. In the end, we agree. The Camaro isn't for people who want a car with an interior competitive with the rest of the $20-$30K range of competitors. I just think it is telling that the person who doesn't think the interior is a problem is coming from a Dodge. That explains a LOT.

Most people don't care if it won't outcorner a zr-1.

I didn't expect it to, and in fact the handling impresses me. If you actually read my posts you would see handling is not the issue at all.

People want a stylish coupe, with RWD and v8 power. If it handles well, so much the better.

See above Re: handling. The rest of your statement confirms why everyone else sees pony/muscle cars and their drivers as one dimensional acceleration machines

Camaro delivers.

See comments above in red.

[UCF w00t]

I've spent time in the Camaro interior and I take issue with this statement...

Yes I realize that now. But I do, and so do most consumers. In the end, we agree. The Camaro isn't for people who want a car with an interior competitive with the rest of the $20-$30K range of competitors. I just think it is telling that the person who doesn't think the interior is a problem is coming from a Dodge. That explains a LOT.

The interior is very important to me. If it wasn't I'd get a 1SS. I upgraded because of the leather and the other bits. I really liked the interior. The only thing I didn't like was the cloth inserts (which the 2XX cars won't have) and the baren passenger dashboard which really isn't that big of a deal as it's astetics only, and not that bad.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Icewinds

So you wanted a small car all along. Camaro is NOT a small car. Why are you whining again?

Still not listening. G8 feels smaller than it is. I expected the Camaro to do the same, being built on an updated version of that platform and with a lot of input from the Holden guys.

[Icewinds]

Originally Posted by stovt001

See comments above in red.

So you think the Stang's or Challenger's interior is that much better.

1. It is not.
2. Even if that was true, no one would really care.