Camaro Z/28 Nurburgring time = 7:37.47 !! [VIDEO]

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

How much did you want to spend in tires? What that amount is we get to spend on a Z/28 it's only fare, and then you will be wright your ZL1 want be 6 sec slower more like 12 sec slower.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by cvp33

I was not impressed with the G2's. Michelin Pilot Supersports felt way better to me. Would think that the Z28 OEM's are better still. I could be wrong though, maybe GM didn't pick the best tire/wheel for their dedicated track weapon. Maybe it's as you all say and there is no advantage to swapping these? Guess will never know. As for the repaving at VIR, certainly you've run enough there to know that the track is faster post-repave.

I would not be impressed with a set of G2s that arrived on my car 2 years old. Fresh out of the mold The Trofoes do have more grip, but require a suspension tuned for them. What ifs make for great discussions.

[Stephen12ZL1]

I have had the opportunity to run both the ZL1 with R comp tires and the Z/28 in stock form at VIR full course. The ZL1 is good but the Z/28 is better. With the lighter weight, stiffer dampening, and carbon ceramic brakes, the Z/28 is much easier to modulate and ultimately produces faster lap times. In the Lightning Lap "Grand Course" configuration, the difference would be greater. The Z/28 is much stiffer sprung and also has better aero as mentioned above. So, tires=done...no way.

[ZL1-V]

Originally Posted by Crushinator

I realize the ZL1 guys have a really hard time justifying the Z/28 being that much quicker at any given track. But the fact is, it is. Take VIR for example. A 4.2 mile track where the Z/28 was almost 7 seconds faster. Times for each, 2:50.9 vs 2:57.5.

Again, on the Nurburgring, at 6 minutes the Z/28 is 10 seconds ahead of the ZL1 when the rain starts. Think about that, 10 seconds. So magically, the ZL1 gained 6 seconds over the last minute and 30 seconds? I don't think so. Had it not rained, the gap would've gotten longer and longer. I was being conservative when I said 6 or 7 seconds. I honestly think it would've been more.

And don't bring up the tires. This conversation is about what the cars can do from the factory...because we could always say, slap a blower on the Z/28 and the gap would be even higher.

That's a terrible analogy as we are talking handling not horsepower. You have to bring up the tires, as they help with cornering and also help with braking. I have no animosity towards the Z/28, or it's owners. I had a chance to buy one but have put enough money in my car's braking and suspension to love it's handling. I know for a fact since the suspension and brakes on my own ZL1 are not stock it would easily better the stock ZL1 Nurburgring time. It's the same platform for both cars. Power to weight is what gives your car the advantage. Just the same as when you go up against a Corvette the same applies there.

[Norm Peterson]

Lap times are partly about tires/wheels/suspension tuning and partly about power/gearing/etc. The Z/28 has advantage in the first, the ZL1 in the second.

As soon as you open up the 'what-if one car had the other car's advantage added to it to even them out that way' door, the door to the other 'what-if' is also opened.


Norm

[JusticePete]

Allow me to add weight, CG and balance to the equation. Since we are off to modding the cars and predicting results...

We add the same wheel and tire package to the ZL1. We crank the boost and add coolers. We get it to 600 RWHP

We build the Z/28 LS7 to 600 RWHP NA and add coolers.

RWHP is now dead even. Wheels and tires are dead even. Which car is faster on ANY road course?

[Shark72]

Originally Posted by Crushinator

I guess everyone that has an LSA engine gets offended by the Z/28.

No...not everyone!

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Allow me to add weight, CG and balance to the equation. Since we are off to modding the cars and predicting results...

We add the same wheel and tire package to the ZL1. We crank the boost and add coolers. We get it to 600 RWHP

We build the Z/28 LS7 to 600 RWHP NA and add coolers.

RWHP is now dead even. Wheels and tires are dead even. Which car is faster on ANY road course?

Z/28

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Z/28

[ZL1-V]

Of course the Z/28 is the better track car it's lighter, and specifically designed for that purpose. Power to weight as I stated in the older post. I think some ZL1 owners posting here are just "butt hurt " by that fact? I'm not, as the more the better in terms of performance. I think they should be happy, due to the fact that there are thousands of Camaro owners that wish they could afford either a ZL1 or Z/28!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by ZL1-V

Of course the Z/28 the better track car it's lighter. Power to weight as I stated in the older post. I think some ZL1 owners posting here are just "butt hurt " by that fact? I'm not, as the more the better in terms of performance. I think they should be happy, due to the fact that there are thousands of Camaro owners that wish they could afford either a ZL1 or Z/28!

Living with a Z/28 as a daily driver takes a level of commitment and sacrifice. Living with a ZL1 as a daily is a day at the beach every day, except when on track trying to beat a Z/28 and any day at the track is better than one at the office.

Living with a ZL1 or Z/28 is a dream that many aspire to. What is not to like?

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Living with a Z/28 as a daily driver takes a level of commitment and sacrifice. Living with a ZL1 as a daily is a day at the beach every day, except when on track trying to beat a Z/28 and any day at the track is better than one at the office.

Living with a ZL1 or Z/28 is a dream that many aspire to. What is not to like?

Well said. But it seems to me that some Z/28 owners (like the recent "OP") are trying to "justify" their cars. Specifically why they spent 50% on a car over SIMILARLY capable (and much easier to live with) ZL1.
I understand (and agree with) all the comments that it is not JUST about the tires. But better tires will make a significant difference on any car. That's a given. So here is a statistic for Z/28 owners to ponder:
ZL1 actually did a 2.52 at VIR BEFORE it was improved. That's LESS than 2 seconds slower than the Z/28 on a NEW track with street legal slicks.
We can play arm chair racers until cows come home. Different tires, different drivers, etc - rarely make it an apples to apples comparison.
I love the fact that GM produced the Z/28. I hate how they priced it as IMO there is not 20+Gs of value or speed in it - over the ZL1.
I know a lot of guys that track their cars. NONE do so with OEM tires with the exception of any cars that come with OEM Cup2s. And perhaps Z/28s with OEM Trofeos, but sadly, I have never seen one being tracked yet.
I suspect most ended up as "collector" cars - a wish debunked by slow sales and deep discounts offered by dealers. But I digressed...
Happy motoring no matter what turns your crank! But if one tries to use media comparos as the ultimate gospel - watch your mirrors when you actually take it to a race track. You might be surprised what you see on your rear bumper. Cheers!

[JusticePete]

There are quite a few Z/28s being tracked. Three of them have had off course incidents in the last month or so. Two have been totaled.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Living with a Z/28 as a daily driver takes a level of commitment and sacrifice. Living with a ZL1 as a daily is a day at the beach every day, except when on track trying to beat a Z/28 and any day at the track is better than one at the office.

Living with a ZL1 or Z/28 is a dream that many aspire to. What is not to like?

Pete you say that, but this is true of a lot of cars, if you want comfort get a coupe de ville, i drive my Z/28 all the time went for a 300mi run yesterday, it is no worst then my 2010 camaro on some coilovers, lowerd 2" in the front and 2 1/2" in the rear.

IMO i think its the price most people dont like, that and no amenities in the cab, but that can be added.