What's the quickest / fastest stock Camaro ever,...

[casper sc/1ss/rs]

[Snidely Whiplash]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

To date, the fastest stock Camaro is the current SS followed closely by the original ZL1

Its nice to see someone admit out front that their info could be wrong or incomplete. Overall, I'd agree with it although a few things did stand out when I looked at it

That 4th gen in the 12s seems highly suspect to me. Not sure if it was a hero run or not, but if it was I can find a 5th gen that beat it by 3 tenths. Anything that I've seen, the 1st gens were were much slower than you're posting -they had a hard time running the 1/4 in less than 14 seconds. Except for the original ZL1 that is, which I think had a stock time claimed to be in the low 13s or perhaps 13 flat. I forget which. I would guess that the '69 SS was "stock" not stock. Back in the day, if you didn't muck around inside the engine, you could still usually claim that you were stock. So you could arguably be using headers, retune the engine, tweak the suspension, put on some drag tires, and still be "stock". Today, we'd generally put a car like that in the bolt-ons or lightly modified category.


One final note ... the hp ratings from the 60's are 100% meaningless if you compare them to todays numbers. It was a different time back then. Automakers would inflate, then under rate their engines making it virtually impossible to know how much power they really made. That all changed when the SAE gross system was replaced with the SAE net rating system. For example, the fabled ZL1 was rumoured to pack over 500 hp, yet was officially rated at 430. That was in the 'anything goes' era of SAE gross. But in the early 70's, it is said to have been re-tested with the new testing procedures, and it came to 375 hp or so. Since then, SAE testing has undergone further revisions and probably became even more conservative (though I don't know this for a fact).

The L88 cast iron block version of the square port headed 427 with 12.5:1 compression, healthy solid lift cam, aluminum intake with an 850 Holley put out over 600 horsepower. Put those parts in a lighter aluminum block and you had a Hemi eater that caused NHRA to ban the engine for stock and super stock classes because the Chrysler guys were so embarrassed.

No computers. Just pure big block, high compression engines turning 7500 RPM.

Did you ever see the "no street driving form" you had to sign before the dealer sold you a ZL1? You had to promise to race it and NOT drive it on the streets. RIIIIIGHT. Tell a 'Nam vet he cannot street drive his new car he bought with his combat pay.

[Snidely Whiplash]

Originally Posted by LimaCharlie

Ah, I remember those days. Being a GM fan my entire driving life, I really loved reading and seeing the dominance of the LSX cars in the late 90's and 2000's. Why did Ford and Dodge have to REALLY get serious? Lol.

The factories got REALLY serious in the early 60s. Ever heard of the 1962 Pontiac 421 C.I. powered car with the aluminum front end to aid weight transfer?

Wanna talk SERIOUS? NASCAR drivers used to be much more talented in the day. They didn't have wind tunnels, computers, and such. Their BIG BLOCK cars were nearly actually flying. THOSE were drivers.

[Muscle Car Lover]

Awesome post @2013 RaceRed 5.0! Great old article.

The OG-riginal ZL-1 has a ton of history, well worth the time to read up on.

[2012 Mustang GT]

I love reading all the old comparison articles...good stuff no matter Blue Oval or Bowtie

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by 2013 RaceRed 5.0

You are correct sir.

Not taking anything away from the SS's upgraded LS1's, as they handily took on the Stangs of that day. But bone stock 12's, no ...



As a long time follower of MM&FF, I know that (at the very least) their "stock" runs involve power shifting. And unlike the big 3 journals, they do not normalize times in respect to weather conditions like humidity/temps/altitude etc.

That's why none of them ran 12's with a 4th gen SS. Here's MT's 12/01 test of one:

Believe it or not but yes, there were several bone stock ls1 f bodies in the 12's. Evan Smith did it with 2 completely different Ls1 cars in Mustang comparos for a Mustang magazine no less. It's a Mustang magazine with a die hard Mustang driver. Trust me, those times are legit. Am I surprised MM&FF publicized both articles showing the embarrassment? Yes, but it did happen.

I would think the fastest production Camaro to date would be the the new ZL1 in the high 11's.

[Trob85]

2014 copo

[sanjosebmx]

would the Baldwin / Yenko Camaros count? If so why not a COPO or Calloway...

What I think would be a fair, and pretty accurate list would be from a Car & Driver or Motor Trend, they likely run on the same track every time, and same drivers for the most part...same conditions..or whatever GM puts out as their factory specs...

[jessrayo]

I think it is funny that people say the current SS and then the 69 ZL1 that ran 12.7. Well in case you hadn't noticed they made the ZL1 again in 2012 and a Gen5 ZL1 has run 11.7 stock. The modern car is heavier but it is the fastest street legal stock Camaro to date..... We probably will get a faster 6th gen though.

[Bo White]

I ran 12.97 in a stock LS1 SS once about 10 years ago.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by 2013 RaceRed 5.0

Thank you sir!



I agree, they're totally cool! I have access to the entire "Muscle Car Confidential" book of tests, got it here:

http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=YVgs12EsvigC



Sounds right!



No disrespect, but like I said before I'm a long time follower of MM&FF so I know better.

Power shifting and not equalizing times for weather conditions makes a big difference in ET's, and that's exactly what they do. Mid to high 13's for an as delivered 4th Gen Camaro SS, sure. 12's? Nope ...

So are you saying that there were no LS1 F bodies that ran 12's bone stock? because if that's what your saying then I'm going to laugh at you. If your saying negative DA and power shifting times don't count then I'm still going to laugh at you. Not to mention that Evan's Smith's 12.9 run in the SS was in POSITIVE DA. If they had equalized that time for weather conditions then it would have been faster.

[Chrisco22]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

Haha interesting how far V6 have come, a manual 5th gen V6 wouldnt be far off that list.

Was actually just thinking that when i was reading the list. Crazy how v6's come with over 300 horses these days. They are no slouch, just hard to keep up with you 400+ guys lol.

[Edzo]

The Baldwin/Motion cars should be considered stock. They were right off the showroom floor, 0 miles if you wanted it.

[CamaroTom]

Motortrend ran a 12.7 @111.9 with a 2013 1LE... That would be #1 on your list.