A MUST READ for Oil Temps for Tracking

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

All right, that does it, time for Sledge to step in here...this thread too valuable for me to allow to go to ruin..Like I tell my own boys, All I want to know is, Who Threw The First Punch? That's all I want to know.

Justice Pete... Why is your Avatar a Punch??? Lollll

[Stephen12ZL1]

can't we all just get along...this thread is meant to be informative and not a personal bashfest. I have learned a lot from reading this entire thread and would love it if "feelings" were left out. Thanks...your mediator.

[Norm Peterson]

I'm not going to re-read this entire thread, but IIRC the matter of warranty didn't creep in until Redline oil and its standing with respect to dexos got mentioned.

Given that there are some who will or currently are running Redline with track driving not involved, the matter of warranty should have been left limited to that and all the recent needless tangential crap in this thread avoided entirely.

There probably are people who will try to get incidents covered under warranty that should not be.

But for benefit of the doubt purposes is it all that unreasonable to assume that the serious regulars here (or just serious track day regulars in general) understand what they're doing and will "man up" when the failure occurs without being scolded ahead of time based on the assumption that they won't?


Norm

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

No I meant you drive his car so we can get a same driver comparo with the two different setups.

+1

X25, would your brother allow you to drive his car? I think this is an awesome idea!

[White_SS/RS]

Anyone interested in GM’s perspective on cooling issues should take a look at these threads on the corvette forum. Sure they are about the Corvette but a lot of the information in general can pertain to the Camaro. It would be great if we could start a similar section in Camaro5 that we could send to a GM representative to have technical questions answered.
Enjoy the reading
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3695333-answered-changes-to-engine-oil-cooling.html This one is great because it gives perspective to the oil cooling systems used by GM on the Corvette over the past generations. There is even mention of the Z28 cooling system.
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3610770-answered-car-overheating-issues-on-track.html This one describes some of GM’s track testing parameters regarding fluid system temperatures.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

Anyone interested in GM’s perspective on cooling issues should take a look at these threads on the corvette forum. Sure they are about the Corvette but a lot of the information in general can pertain to the Camaro. It would be great if we could start a similar section in Camaro5 that we could send to a GM representative to have technical questions answered.
Enjoy the reading
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3695333-answered-changes-to-engine-oil-cooling.html This one is great because it gives perspective to the oil cooling systems used by GM on the Corvette over the past generations. There is even mention of the Z28 cooling system.
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3610770-answered-car-overheating-issues-on-track.html This one describes some of GM’s track testing parameters regarding fluid system temperatures.

It is always good to hear it from the horses mouth. That said, he didn't tell us anything we don't already know. Run these cars on hot days and they want to melt. They need a larger radiator and oil cooler as with temps in the 90s and up.

[wernergmhtp]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

Anyone interested in GM’s perspective on cooling issues should take a look at these threads on the corvette forum. Sure they are about the Corvette but a lot of the information in general can pertain to the Camaro. It would be great if we could start a similar section in Camaro5 that we could send to a GM representative to have technical questions answered.
Enjoy the reading
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3695333-answered-changes-to-engine-oil-cooling.html This one is great because it gives perspective to the oil cooling systems used by GM on the Corvette over the past generations. There is even mention of the Z28 cooling system.
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3610770-answered-car-overheating-issues-on-track.html This one describes some of GM’s track testing parameters regarding fluid system temperatures.

Good read. Do the Camaros have over temp warning lights or messages for coolant, oil, and trans, like the article says the Vettes do?

I have extensively tracked a C5 Z06 (no aftermarket cooling) and 2014 Camaro SS auto (aftermarket trans cooler) in 100 plus temps, with no warnings.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by wernergmhtp

I have extensively tracked a C5 Z06 (no aftermarket cooling) and 2014 Camaro SS auto (aftermarket trans cooler) in 100 plus temps, with no warnings.

What tracks do you run?

[wernergmhtp]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

What tracks do you run?

Only VIR thus far with the Camaro. Z06 also saw NJMP and Lime Rock but has been sold. (Cobalt SS has seen VIR and Road Atlanta, never a temp problem with that car either).

[JusticePete]

Heat is directly related to the amount of time the engine is spinning at high rpm. 30 minute sessions at VIR in 90* plus heat will have engine oil in the 300 degree range with laps under 2:20. I have seen way too often. I am not sure how you avoid this.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

I'm sorry but Tadge was sugar coating it, no way they met their design requirements. The C7 ZO6 cannot handle continuos driving around a typical road course at 86 F by a pro driver. The C7 ZO6 has not been able to run at Laguna Seca nor Buttonwillow with normal Joes behind the wheel in mid-60s ambient temp for more than a few laps without overheating. When I tracked at Buttonwillow a week ago, my friend's ZO6 overheated and went into limp mode after three or four laps. This was in the cool morning session in the 60s. His gauges are hard to read but he thinks oil was over 300 and water over 260 F. After going into limp mode and then having to back off in the next session, he short shifted at 5,000 RPM for the rest of the day. Meanwhile, I saw a max of 221 F water and 244 F oil in the Viper. We were the two fastest cars of the weekend so we were driving them hard, but neither of us are as fast as a pro. Same thing at Laguna Seca a couple months ago. In high 60s ambient, a C7 ZO6 went into limp mode mid-session with 267 F water and 309 F oil. It puked all of its coolant out in the paddock. Totally unacceptable. Very disappointed in GM for releasing the ZO6 like this.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Orange Crush 1LE

I'm sorry but Tadge was sugar coating it, no way they met their design requirements. The C7 ZO6 cannot handle continuos driving around a typical road course at 86 F by a pro driver. The C7 ZO6 has not been able to run at Laguna Seca nor Buttonwillow with normal Joes behind the wheel in mid-60s ambient temp for more than a few laps without overheating. When I tracked at Buttonwillow a week ago, my friend's ZO6 overheated and went into limp mode after three or four laps. This was in the cool morning session in the 60s. His gauges are hard to read but he thinks oil was over 300 and water over 260 F. After going into limp mode and then having to back off in the next session, he short shifted at 5,000 RPM for the rest of the day. Meanwhile, I saw a max of 221 F water and 244 F oil in the Viper. We were the two fastest cars of the weekend so we were driving them hard, but neither of us are as fast as a pro. Same thing at Laguna Seca a couple months ago. In high 60s ambient, a C7 ZO6 went into limp mode mid-session with 267 F water and 309 F oil. It puked all of its coolant out in the paddock. Totally unacceptable. Very disappointed in GM for releasing the ZO6 like this.

I don't understand why they are having these overheating issues. The reason I say that, is because they're testing of these vehicles is so intense. I know a number of the engineers at work on these projects. They are racers. They take great pride in their work. They're very good at what they do. So if you have good people that understand racing doing extensive testing and validation, you understand why I say I don't understand why they're having this problem.

[White_SS/RS]

I've been lucky enough that my local tracks don't tax the cooling system as bad as some of the ones mentioned here. I’m not saying it isn’t over taxed… it is. Typically in 90ish ambient I will run 220 water and 290 oil. It has ran hotter in hotter weather but it has never went into a limp mode.

I don’t understand GM’s approach either, it’s too easy to create a cooling system that works for quickly getting the vehicle up to temp and also providing adequate cooling under race like conditions. Using the heat exchanger seen on the current cars is great, like Tadge said, it’s provided a better cooling system then any of their previous designs. The problem with it is its significantly undersized. If they don’t want to create a superior cooling system because its overkill for the masses then it would be great if they offered a supplemental cooling system that could be installed with OEM fit and reliability.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

I'm a design engineer myself, sometimes you get boxed into a corner and have to do the best you can with what you've got to work with. They put form before function. Tadge hinted at the constraints. Perhaps there isn't a high-pressure opening in the front of the C7 available for a good oil cooling solution. I was suggesting to my friend to consider putting dual oil coolers where the brake cooling openings are. Two custom shrouded air to oil coolers in those places may do the trick, or may not as there's not a lot of room. The air could pass through the oil coolers and then also cool those big CCBs.

I just called LG Motorsports, they are working on a solution but it's not out yet. Lingenfelter is supposedly working on one too, but nothing on their website yet.

Sorry for the hijack.