[SpeedIsLife]

I disagree with the notion that "if only people see the cars, then they'll sell". I really admire the M3/M4, the Lexus RC-F, and cars like that..but it doesn't mean I'm prepared to spend the money on them.

If people really like the car, but aren't comfortable spending the money on them, or having to take out some insane 8 year long loan to afford it..then they're not going to buy it, and they shouldn't. If they really like the $45,000 2SS..but are only comfortable with spending a total of about $37,000...then they shouldn't scrimp and squeeze to get to that higher price point.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The camaro doesn't have to be the leader in sales, but it needs to be competitive....which for the past year hasn't even come close to. GM has already shown willingness to shut down platforms due to lack of sales, so any camaro fan should care.

I'd also like to point out, unless you are a classic car collector, people don't buy new cars because of their resale value. If they did, BMW and Mercedes would be out of business. GM is going to learn this the hard way. Fleet sales have never stopped people from buying the mustang in droves.

I've said it before, the performance folks on these forums are few and far between compared to the average Joe looking for a pony car. They care far more about looks, ergonomics, trunk capacity etc. than the do that the car is the segment leader in performance. Ford has proven time and again that they don't need to put out the most power, or the fastest lap time. They just need to be close enough.

I guess if 2nd and 3rd place makes you happy, more power to you

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I disagree with the notion that "if only people see the cars, then they'll sell". I really admire the M3/M4, the Lexus RC-F, and cars like that..but it doesn't mean I'm prepared to spend the money on them.

If people really like the car, but aren't comfortable spending the money on them, or having to take out some insane 8 year long loan to afford it..then they're not going to buy it, and they shouldn't. If they really like the $45,000 2SS..but are only comfortable with spending a total of about $37,000...then they shouldn't scrimp and squeeze to get to that higher price point.

They should be able to find a used one in their price range

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

They should be able to find a used one in their price range

Eventually yeah, which is my plan. Unfortunately dealers are super proud of even used 5th Gen's...it's going to be a hot minute before they come down into the lower 30's (where I can splurge on one)

[NJ Tribute]

Now is a perfect time to get your New 2016 Camaro with 0% up to 72 months or 16% OFF MSRP on Stock units

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Eventually yeah, which is my plan. Unfortunately dealers are super proud of even used 5th Gen's...it's going to be a hot minute before they come down into the lower 30's (where I can splurge on one)

We do get members that run into a rough patch and need to get out of a note, some of those are killer deals

[SpookShow'84]

Originally Posted by hangover

Lol... come on man. The first year of a new platform and the best this camaro heap of shared parts can do is half the sales of a second year mustang platform?

Face the facts, Ford hit the home run of home runs with the Mustang6g and left the Camaro in the dust.

Both of the cars have styling problems.

The camaro tried to please 5th gen owners and built a 7/8th's scale 6th gen as their new model. It looks like a 5.5gen, like the the lt1 vs. ls1 4th gen car. It doesn't look new or hot. It's also not styled classically (widely appealing musclecar lines) enough to have broad appeal to the general public. Problem is it isn't different looking enough to get 5th gen owners off their wallet b/c they already have a car that looks like the new one, and to everyone else it doesn't have the bling factor of "look at me in my new car".

The mustang took two widely appealing cars that generally most people like and used them as the basis for the M6G. The front half of a fusion with it's f-86 sabre jet inspired intake/grill, with the back of a nissan 350Z which is a good looking car with a hint of exotic that everyone liked. It has classic design cues that people identify with, but enough changes to make it look new.

Both of the cars need to have to a rear fascia re-design, the bumpers and taillights shape and placement are bummers.

[Kobra_Klutch]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

That large paragraph was painful to read. But to shed a little light, Fbodfather (Scott Settlemire) was the man that shared his passion for this product with us. He has since retired and after that day, any GM presence from on-high has been deafeningly silent.

Al O. would make it sound like they are all too busy making us kick ass vehicles, but this is the same guy that got a bunch of nameless cronies together as a focus group to ask what they wanted in the next Camaro -- why not ask Tran to post some surveys to allow the greater 5th gen community to weight in and provide a better sampling size? GM only placates us with event support now.

I don't think any of them get that we would rather have some people from Chevy support that have Camaros join this site with their real names, actually interact with us to improve the platform and help with smooth issue resolutions. If they wanted to cyber-stalk the boards sometimes and see where groups were meeting for surprise visits with test mules, that would be thoughtful and cost them very little. Imagine if the ZL1 testers they had around the country spent some nights in different states crashing the closest Camaro club meet out of nowhere.

It would get more people on here hyped and even hanging out together to share about these cars. Big groups of them on the side of the road generates free marketing and attention. And these forums wouldn't be tanking like the Titanic due to lack of fresh blood and ideas.

Instead we get a single social media account shared by some people likely driving Sparks, that hate their job so much they use canned scripts to deal with us like we're calling some tech support number in India. "Did you make sure the computer is plugged in? Have you pressed the power button?"

Thanks Jax for your feedback. I know Fbod is retired, I saw the retirement pictures, but someone could come on here and do some of the things you've suggested. I've always looked forward to hearing their candid feedback on the intricate details that we're not privy to.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

I guess if 2nd and 3rd place makes you happy, more power to you

Sorry, you sound like the typical LS1 owner. Have fun when the POS foxbody with welds destroys your new camaro. I can spend less than $3k piecing one together and run mid 10's. Does that make it the better car though?

Being the fastest to the next stoplight doesn't matter to me. I just care about it being fast enough.

I'm also good with 1st place in sales. It ensures the model will live on.

[JaxChris]

Originally Posted by Kobra_Klutch

Thanks Jax for your feedback. I know Fbod is retired, I saw the retirement pictures, but someone could come on here and do some of the things you've suggested. I've always looked forward to hearing their candid feedback on the intricate details that we're not privy to.

It would be great to have a real continued presence here, but I don't really think GM gives two sh!ts anymore about customer engagement. Nobody will pick up Scott's torch and run with it. We are on our own again. The 6th gen Camaro will probably die again by 2020 due to lack of sales after GM is done price lifting, refusing to market and ignoring real customers.

The 2019 ZL1 (2nd year with A10 transmission) will probably be the pinnacle and end of Camaro. That will be a collectors car for sure.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BrandX

I personally do not care if it is the sales leader....................

It leads virtually all performance metrics for cars in and out of it's class for the price and beyond.......PERIOD, END OF STORY....The ZL1 and Z28 will shatter those metrics for the price.

Oh by the way:

Loaded 2017 Mustang GT PP: $44K MSRP
2017 2ss Camaro with comparable equipment: $45k MSRP........
2017 Scat Pack or SRT Challenger: 43K to 54K MSRP

Keep in mind the 2ss at that price may or may not include Mag Ride or Dual Mode, which is not even available on the Mustang.

I really do not understand why people say the Camaro is so much more expensive. Spec out a Mustang and Camaro with the same AVAILABLE equipment on both cars, and there is virtually no gap.

Maybe because Ford has more incentives?...remember those lack of incentives on the Camaro hopefully mean a higher resale value down the road.

The other arguments poor trunk, backseat, visibility, blah blah blah!!!!!!
The only one where the backseat is truly useable by adults for any length of time is the Challenger.........and all the cars have visibility issues in some fashion, but once you are accustomed to the Camaro, it is not an issue.

My .02 cents....

I think some of you just like to bitch about something.

No Offense.

Yes the high level trims optioned out are pretty damn close. However if you want to concentrate on SS vs GT sales, one thing that may be hurting SS sales vs GT sales, is consumers can get a GT Premium for less than a 1 SS. But that is not where the sales are made and you made that point below

Originally Posted by BrandX

I see your point, bit personally I am at that stage of the hobby where I do not want to do extensive mechanical modifications to the car to achieve performance. Those who drive these cars always clamor from the manufacturers that we want more, more, more,...........Now we have the more, more, more, and it cost money, money, money.

I see you have a 1LT...I will concede the V6 and I4 cars are drastically overpriced compared to the competition. however, that 1LT Camaro of yours is much better than a comparable mustang as far as driving dynamics and performance.

If sales remain stable...then the car will remain in Chevy's line-up.

The low trim cars are where the sales are made. They are priced much higher than the competition. The driving dynamics of the low end cars, might not be enough to overcome the higher price to the competition. The majority of people looking at those lower trims are probably going to be more concerned with looking cool, and spending less than which car can go faster or pull more G's.

This is just my opinion, I look at the dealers near me that are of similar size to Ford dealers in the area. They have the same level of inventory of Camaro's as Mustangs. IF the GM authority article was correct with the 129 days in inventory tells me GM expected volume to at least be similar to what Gen 5. So that to me, throws the sell less make more per car argument out the window. Now that doesn't mean time to panic but I think we can see that they expected sales to be a bit higher than they currently are.

[SpeedIsLife]

Folks..folks...the Camaro isn't on the edge of cancellation.

You'd have to see waaaay lower sales for that. What you may see is reduced factory output, or reduced R&D funds for future models, etc..but the Camaro isn't getting cut when still maintaining 5K-6K monthly sales.

If sales drop to 1,000-2,000 a month..then you can start to get nervous.

[KenH.]

The camaro is in a bad spot right now and I'm not sure why. Even used camaros are not selling and because of that the price is dropping which drops resale values on the new ones as well.

A quick look shows a 2016 2SS with 3kmi for 34k, a 2015 2ss with 7kmi for 26k and it books at 31k!

When I was shopping new and used camaros in June the high end selection was limited for both 5th and 6th gen. Now it seems there are a shit ton of new and used 2ss camaros on the lots. Good news for people who haven't bought yet. It's a buyers market right now.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Folks..folks...the Camaro isn't on the edge of cancellation.

You'd have to see waaaay lower sales for that. What you may see is reduced factory output, or reduced R&D funds for future models, etc..but the Camaro isn't getting cut when still maintaining 5K-6K monthly sales.

If sales drop to 1,000-2,000 a month..then you can start to get nervous.

Get nervous at 3k.....