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Old 02-15-2012, 07:51 PM   #1
chevydude26

 
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Zl1 or modding an ss?

How much cheaper would it be to say get an ss convertible add a supercharger and track pack and some good brakes than a zl1? Would the perforamance not be as good where it would just be better to get the ZL1 or can you surpass the performance?

I'm guessing the camaro ss convertible with rs would end up being about 45000 and the zl1 convertible probably starts at 60,000

so thats about a 15000 grand difference but a supercharger alone is like 6-8 grand getting brakes and a good suspension can easily match the 15000 and surpass it

what are your guys thoughts?
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:21 PM   #2
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I think it comes down to one simple question. Do you want a modified SS or do you want a ZL1? You can add performance to an SS but some of the things you are talking about can easily get to $15K. A supercharger alone with cold air intake, long tubes and exhaust will be in the 9K-10K range. There are some cool aspects about doing your own thing with an SS. I know. I have one and its pretty awesome. But, I still want a ZL1. You just need to decide what you want. There is no wrong answer.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:26 PM   #3
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guy above me has it exactly

It's 99.9% of the time cheaper to modify a cheaper car and make it perform on a higher level than it is to buy the higher performing car from the beginining..

but, it will never be THAT other car.

to the OP,, it's all about what you wanna do... nobody I know would bash you for making an SS outhandle, and outperform a ZL1...

it's when you start comparing nameplates, and which one is a better deal, you just have to be willing to accept the fact that some people will never look twice because it doesnt have the 'name' to back up its performance
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:33 PM   #4
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totally would go zl1if i planned on modding it in the future. The magnetic ride control has got to be awesome.

thanks for the answers
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:01 PM   #5
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This is the exact delima I faced. By the time I spend the money on the supercharger, suspension, brakes, driveline upgrades, clutch, & buy a decent looking set of wheels it is so close to the money for a ZL1 it isn't funny. Then it still looks like an SS with wheels. That's why I'm trading my 2011 SS for a ZL1.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevydude26 View Post
How much cheaper would it be to say get an ss convertible add a supercharger and track pack and some good brakes than a zl1? Would the perforamance not be as good where it would just be better to get the ZL1 or can you surpass the performance?

I'm guessing the camaro ss convertible with rs would end up being about 45000 and the zl1 convertible probably starts at 60,000

so thats about a 15000 grand difference but a supercharger alone is like 6-8 grand getting brakes and a good suspension can easily match the 15000 and surpass it

what are your guys thoughts?
my issue with this is just the resale difference in the two cars. when I was young (20's) I bought base models modded them then lost my ass when I sold them. Now in my 30's I buy the higher end models mod less don't lose my ass as bad when I unload them.

you will really struggle to surpass and maintain the drivablity. Now you can go build a moster car for the same money but every car I have put too many mods on always lost out somewhere. Usually ride quality when it comes to trying to make the car handle. Could be I am just not quite a smart as the automtive engineers ha ha.

I think you could buy and SS mod it. I am liking the E force kit they have waranty. Then there are some good suspention systmes out there but some of them can induce noise/ harsh ride.

I had maximum motorsports on my last mustang. handled good bit more road noise ride was harsh.

I have pedders on my 300c I get bushing noise if I don't keep them greased hence ther is maintenace there to keep everthing OEM feel.

both my vetts handled better than I drive It think so they didn't really need mods just seat time. thats they way I think the ZL1 will be.

In the long run I think the ZL1 is the way to go right now.

1. oem engineered superchager (less heat soak issues)
2. mag ride
3. dual disc clutch
4. strenghted rear
5. stronger tranny
6. better brakes

that cost quite a bit to add.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbabb View Post
This is the exact delima I faced. By the time I spend the money on the supercharger, suspension, brakes, driveline upgrades, clutch, & buy a decent looking set of wheels it is so close to the money for a ZL1 it isn't funny. Then it still looks like an SS with wheels. That's why I'm trading my 2011 SS for a ZL1.
I feel like this is a really good point.

And as others have said, it's super easy to modify a car to perform LIKE the ZL1. You could build a Toyota Supra that would outperform a ZL1 and still cost less than the ZL1, but thats a SUPRA. Do you want to be driving that?!?!!? And then there's no warranty on your custom Supra. And it wouldn't be a very good daily driver either. And it looks like a Supra. AND it is a Supra. That would suck.

Really the warranty is a good viewpoint. I know car warranties aren't for everyone, but with all the high dollar upgrades that come factory on the ZL1, I'd be really nervous and uptight if it didn't have a factory warranty.

It's just the same way you see Callaway camaros. Sure you could get an SS for cheaper and supercharge it yourself. But where's that warranty again?!


Alright, I'm beating a dead horse on warranties.....

(Can you get a warranty with a horse?)
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:43 AM   #8
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There are many mod'd SSs here that would easily outperform ZL1. The car that always comes to mind to me was Pedders car. Here's why I think it's a relatively good comparison to this senario:

Added power from an SC, upgraded chassis, suspension, and brakes. This car was engineered to be a road course car; maybe not so much at the strip (I'll touch on that, though, that's not necessarily too relavent to my point).

ZL1 is very similar to how Pedders' SS ended up. ZL1 is not going to make the same power, nor will it handle as well, but it wouldn't suffer from heat soak that Pedders' car did, although, they were working on correcting a lot of those heat-related issues in the end. ZL1, does, however have a functional aero' kit, fortified engine, tranny, rearend, and driveline, though. ZL1 has all the coolers necessary to run for hours on end, and not burn up. ZL1 has active suspension and steering, neither of which Pedders' car did. ZL1 also had a complete electronics suite of performance oriented chassis settings to make nearly any driver a supercar driver.

There are a couple downsides to ZL1, though, if you ask me... All those electronics - can fail at some point. What do we do about the MR III shocks in five years, or ten years, when they're no longer produced? What happens when a chassis computer or part of the EPS goes out? These parts aren't produced forever, and I'm not sure I've even noticed replacement aftermarket shocks for other MR-cars out there... Most of the rest of the mechanicals, it seems to me, can be rebuilt, or refurbished, but these electronics and parts controlled by electronics worry me. This is my biggest worry about ZL1. I plan on keeping this car for the foreseeable future.

Pedders' car (like many of our other Sponsors rides), have shocks, for example, that are rebuildable, and will be useable relatively indefinately. Shoot, you could put an SS together, and just build on it, and address most of the things that ZL1 has above SS. Lingenfelter has a 9.5" differential you can get, and I think Moser is working on a 12-bolt, too. You can buy a TR6060 that will handle 700 horse'. You can replace all the bushings and many of the control arms with stuff from BMR, Pfadt, LMR, and a number of other companies. You can also upgrade your diff' with Jannetty's upgrades.

The bottom line to me, is what you are looking for. If you want something with a special name, maybe ZL1 is worth it. If you're looking for a CAMARO, and don't really care about a name, why not start with SS and mod' the piss out of it? You are going to be most of the way past ZL1 with a couple grand in suspension, $7K in a SC for power, and a couple grand in brakes. Throw in a few grand in wheels and tires, and you're at ZL1's level of performance. As you get some more money (if that's the issue), you can upgrade the rest of the car as you see fit. Many of ZL1's systems are over-built with safety factors that most buyers won't begin to touch. To say ZL1 is just a name is downright wrong. To say that ZL1 is the ultimate CAMARO is only half-right.

I think it would be more fun to build SS into a ZL1-eater. You might not be able to completely duplicate everything ZL1 is, however, if you're looking for performance, and know how to drive, there's nothing ZL1 can do SS can't achieve with some work, time, and money. The speed of the car is relative to the money put into it (so long as driver skill matches the potential of the performance).
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by hightower View Post
I feel like this is a really good point.

And as others have said, it's super easy to modify a car to perform LIKE the ZL1. You could build a Toyota Supra that would outperform a ZL1 and still cost less than the ZL1, but thats a SUPRA. Do you want to be driving that?!?!!? And then there's no warranty on your custom Supra. And it wouldn't be a very good daily driver either. And it looks like a Supra. AND it is a Supra. That would suck.

Really the warranty is a good viewpoint. I know car warranties aren't for everyone, but with all the high dollar upgrades that come factory on the ZL1, I'd be really nervous and uptight if it didn't have a factory warranty.

It's just the same way you see Callaway camaros. Sure you could get an SS for cheaper and supercharge it yourself. But where's that warranty again?!

Alright, I'm beating a dead horse on warranties.....

(Can you get a warranty with a horse?)
Well I agree with everybthing but the Supra. I doubt you can build one to out perform a ZL1 and still be in it cheaper unless the car you started with one that had been on its way to the scrapyard. But what's with all the Supra hate? any car that can be built to 1000+hp still be street legal and do so with only an inline 6 is ok with me.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:07 PM   #10
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The sales manager at my dealership said they never order a Corvette with the Mag ride option unless a customer wants it. He said it was around $2800, and nobody really wants to pay for it. He did say they order all Corvettes with the electrically activated exhaust. I wish the ZL1 didn't have the Mag ride and was priced accordingly less. I'd be satisfied with an upgraded SS suspension. Can't imagine how much a set of those shocks cost.

I don't think that you could build a car to the level of the ZL1 for less money and still maintain a warranty. It performs great in all areas. I could see someone beating its performance in a straight line, or in the curves, but it covers all of these areas in a single package. Modding is expensive, risky, and usually has some trade-offs.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:06 PM   #11
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The sales manager at my dealership said they never order a Corvette with the Mag ride option unless a customer wants it. He said it was around $2800, and nobody really wants to pay for it. He did say they order all Corvettes with the electrically activated exhaust. I wish the ZL1 didn't have the Mag ride and was priced accordingly less. I'd be satisfied with an upgraded SS suspension. Can't imagine how much a set of those shocks cost.

I don't think that you could build a car to the level of the ZL1 for less money and still maintain a warranty. It performs great in all areas. I could see someone beating its performance in a straight line, or in the curves, but it covers all of these areas in a single package. Modding is expensive, risky, and usually has some trade-offs.
Well that sounds like a person who sells cars and does not drive them. I wish my Z06 had it. The vet is not the same suspention though. only someone who is uniformed would compare the mag ride a base vett has to the GEN III stuff.

the F55 option they used to sell on the base vette though was kind of porely designed and gave the system a bad wrap on the vette. It has two setting two soft and still to soft. It is not the Gen III system like in the ZL1 so the sales manager is comparing apples and oranges.

when I bought my 08 it was less for the Z51 than the F55 and the Z51 car outperfromed the f55 car hands down. the Z51 also had extra coolers and other things not on the F55. so I did not even consider the F55.

On the new grand sport the Z06 springs and sways compliment the mag ride and it actually laps faster so I would pay the money.

In my perspective if all cars have mag ride it is cheaper to own and I would not have the car any other way so works out for me.

honestly if you won't want the mag ride just put an E-force on a SS.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jlbabb View Post
This is the exact delima I faced. By the time I spend the money on the supercharger, suspension, brakes, driveline upgrades, clutch, & buy a decent looking set of wheels it is so close to the money for a ZL1 it isn't funny. Then it still looks like an SS with wheels. That's why I'm trading my 2011 SS for a ZL1.
I would love to trade my SS in, but I'd lose way to much on the trade in. As much as I'd love to get it, I don't see it happening for me :(
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:45 PM   #13
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ZL1 for sure
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:31 PM   #14
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I also think that if you mod an SS with a supercharger and others bolt ons, then tunnel bracing and axle diameter come into play. SS aren't set up to handle that torque and RWHP from what I found out. Rear axles are in the $2500 range and then they need installed. With a ZL1 you can get all those upgrades and a OEM warranty? Do I have my facts right?
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